Where to for Super Rugby?

[Joe King]

Here's my (biased) prediction of what will happen:

We will move to a full season TT. In some ways this has to happen for people to see if it really is as good as think it will be.

But within a couple of years everyone will be able to see that it's going the same way as old Super Rugby and is bad for Australian rugby.

Everyone will realise we need to move to a domestic-focused model first and foremost, and build any TT games around that without compromising it.

NZ won't want to do plain Super Rugby Aotearoa again, and so will plan to take the two PI teams for themselves.

Australia will be left with their Super Rugby teams and so plan to play Super Rugby AU followed by something special with Japan.

NZ won't want to miss out on involvement with Japan, but will realise their planned 7 team domestic comp is going to be too long to leave any room to be involved with what Australia and Japan are planning.

So NZR will offer one of the PI teams back to RA, and reluctantly agree to the following model:

1. Super Rugby AU and Super Rugby Aotearoa to be played with 6 teams each home and away with a semi-final and final.

2. The two winners to play each other in a 'Super Bowl' game followed by a week off.

3. The top 4 Japanese teams to then join us for a 16 team knockout competition over 4 weeks. Every team will get another shot at glory.

That's an 18 week season with plenty of peak events.

The final of Super Rugby AU and Super Rugby Aotearoa will be played to a packed house each year, as will the 'Super Bowl' game.

The knockout comp will capture the attention of the casual spectator just as well as the NRL and AFL finals do.

Teams will be attempting to win all three trophies in the one year. Legends will be created.

Ratings will be through the roof. The broadcasters will pay big money. Australia will retain their talent and begin to win over the hearts and minds of young boys and girls.

NZ will realise that Super Rugby Aotearoa does them no harm and even start to love it.

Australia and NZ will become best friends.

 

[half]

JK

I don't see the above happening.

WE have a media deal with Nine / Fairfax/ Stan / Radio network, to date they have thrown a lot into helping grow the game... The Nine group see themselves maybe getting league and maybe cricket to its newer streaming FTA model...

I see the Nine group doing extensive due diligence on what is working and whats not working.

I have always seen the Nine deal to be more to grown Stan so Stan can compete with Netflicks and give it a point of difference to Netflicks. Further having something that CBS via Paramount can't have for there July / August stated release date.

Nine IMO see Stan streaming as a huge part of their future and to some extent our success will be judged on what gets people to buy Stan streaming.

To this end its obvious to me we need a longer season, secondly we need a season that people are willing to pay the Stan subs over a year.

IMO our future will be driven by extending the domestic competition to help Stan grow and to do that we need to expand the number of Australia teams and extend the Australian season.

Deep down in my soul I think RA Admins today understand this its working out how to do it within existing constraints.

 

[Dan54]

Ummm - so you think selling the advertising, merchandise, name etc of the All Blacks is not selling the All Blacks?

OK

Um no, when billionaires etc buy these teams they actually buy the whole lot, they actually control everything. Still if you think 12% of marketing is buying the whole team? Well Ok ' we got different idea of ownership etc.
Anyway this is not thread to worry about that anyway.

 

[Dan54]

What's the point in being the 'most dominant team in any sport' if there are only 3-4 other teams?

Fuckn stupid.

Perhaps you and whoever liked you post have got some fingers missing? 3-4 teams and Australia is ranked 7 ?
Oh dear oh dear!!

 

[Dan54]

I guess it would constitute a tacit acceptance of the fact that a large percentage (eventually a majority) of Australia's best clearly won't be playing here.

Go see the Aussie Exodus Thread. Skelton seems to be the best lock in France. He alone would have made a monumental difference to the Tahs season.

For whatever reason NZ have managed to stave off the drain (though, maybe they haven't. Maybe they just had more initial depth to tap into).

What?? NZ have staved off drain? Have a peek at how many (now EX) Abs are playing in England and France. Piutau, Luatua both still top playes, Kaino has been dominant 6 in France for last few years, geezthere not many people I know who don't think Blues and ABs would be a hell of a lot stronger with these players, and it goes for all teams in NZ. But it is what it is, if players chose money, and who is to say theu mightn't be any good here anyway. Skelton seems to have gone well under a professional outfit up north.

 

[Dan54]

Here's my (biased) prediction of what will happen:

Here is my prediction, Hamish may possibly stop being a hard man in papers, RA will work out what the f*** they want, and then start actually start talking. (as according to even Hamish even they don't know)
Apparently as up to yesterday, noone from NZR and RA have even spoken.
Hamish has to press and I know a few in here are saying he's a great man he standing up to NZR, but would be better if he actually did it instead of impressing a few people who believe his bullshit in papers.
I know last time I read from Hamish he said he was meeting with the new Chaiman of NZR shortly, so maybe we will actually have progress.

In saying this I may owe him an apology , but maybe it just papers misquoting him of course.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-perplexed-by-rugby-australia-chairs-outburst

 

[sunnyboys]

Great to see NZ rugby people once again thinking they know what’s best for Oz rugby (referring to the Knowles article attached to the post above). Even going so far as to bring up the “cut two teams” request that NZ felt they could force on us.

The sooner Aus rugby tell NZ rugby to go to hell the better.

 

[dru]

Great to see NZ rugby people once again thinking they know what’s best for Oz rugby (referring to the Knowles article attached to the post above). Even going so far as to bring up the “cut two teams” request that NZ felt they could force on us.

The sooner Aus rugby tell NZ rugby to go to hell the better.

I really don't think that we will get past these Kiwi attitudes for them to gain an appreciation for involvement in Australia, until we withdraw.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Here's my (biased) prediction of what will happen:

We will move to a full season TT. In some ways this has to happen for people to see if it really is as good as think it will be.

But within a couple of years everyone will be able to see that it's going the same way as old Super Rugby and is bad for Australian rugby.

Everyone will realise we need to move to a domestic-focused model first and foremost, and build any TT games around that without compromising it.

NZ won't want to do plain Super Rugby Aotearoa again, and so will plan to take the two PI teams for themselves.

Australia will be left with their Super Rugby teams and so plan to play Super Rugby AU followed by something special with Japan.

NZ won't want to miss out on involvement with Japan, but will realise their planned 7 team domestic comp is going to be too long to leave any room to be involved with what Australia and Japan are planning.

So NZR will offer one of the PI teams back to RA, and reluctantly agree to the following model:

1. Super Rugby AU and Super Rugby Aotearoa to be played with 6 teams each home and away with a semi-final and final.

2. The two winners to play each other in a 'Super Bowl' game followed by a week off.

3. The top 4 Japanese teams to then join us for a 16 team knockout competition over 4 weeks. Every team will get another shot at glory.

That's an 18 week season with plenty of peak events.

The final of Super Rugby AU and Super Rugby Aotearoa will be played to a packed house each year, as will the 'Super Bowl' game.

The knockout comp will capture the attention of the casual spectator just as well as the NRL and AFL finals do.

Teams will be attempting to win all three trophies in the one year. Legends will be created.

Ratings will be through the roof. The broadcasters will pay big money. Australia will retain their talent and begin to win over the hearts and minds of young boys and girls.

NZ will realise that Super Rugby Aotearoa does them no harm and even start to love it.

Australia and NZ will become best friends.

I actually not brave enough to predict what will happen.

Here is my prediction, Hamish may possibly stop being a hard man in papers, RA will work out what the f*** they want, and then start actually start talking. (as according to even Hamish even they don't know)
Apparently as up to yesterday, noone from NZR and RA have even spoken.
Hamish has to press and I know a few in here are saying he's a great man he standing up to NZR, but would be better if he actually did it instead of impressing a few people who believe his bullshit in papers.
I know last time I read from Hamish he said he was meeting with the new Chaiman of NZR shortly, so maybe we will actually have progress.

In saying this I may owe him an apology , but maybe it just papers misquoting him of course.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-perplexed-by-rugby-australia-chairs-outburst

These threads are just the end result of frustration that we can’t seem to get a super rugby product that crosses borders to work. And yes we take our different views on where the problems lie. But you get the picture there is a lot of mistrust between RA and NZRU and frustration and inability to work together to resolve issues to mutual benefit. It does not give you a lot of confidence that we will ever get a successful competition as not getting a picture that shows NZRU and RA can work together. I do agree with your point Dan that we really need an independent body to design and run a TT competition and broker better cooperation and alignment between RA and NZRU. I think we are past blame and desperately need an independent body to try and make this work. It is hard to otherwise see NZRU and RA working together to design and deliver a successful TT product without this.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

What?? NZ have staved off drain? Have a peek at how many (now EX) Abs are playing in England and France. Piutau, Luatua both still top playes, Kaino has been dominant 6 in France for last few years, geezthere not many people I know who don't think Blues and ABs would be a hell of a lot stronger with these players, and it goes for all teams in NZ. But it is what it is, if players chose money, and who is to say theu mightn't be any good here anyway. Skelton seems to have gone well under a professional outfit up north.

Dan nz has the depth to sustain these departures while we don’t if competing against kiwi teams. Another reason why we are keen on open borders to address our depth issues...don’t want to debate whether open borders should be signed up to by nzru but just stating another reason why Australia more keen on it.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Here is my prediction, Hamish may possibly stop being a hard man in papers, RA will work out what the f*** they want, and then start actually start talking. (as according to even Hamish even they don't know)
Apparently as up to yesterday, noone from NZR and RA have even spoken.
Hamish has to press and I know a few in here are saying he's a great man he standing up to NZR, but would be better if he actually did it instead of impressing a few people who believe his bullshit in papers.
I know last time I read from Hamish he said he was meeting with the new Chaiman of NZR shortly, so maybe we will actually have progress.

In saying this I may owe him an apology , but maybe it just papers misquoting him of course.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-perplexed-by-rugby-australia-chairs-outburst

The media misquoting People - surely not. If you want to believe RA is at fault read nz papers...if you want to believe NZRU is at fault read Australian papers..if you want to know the truth as to what is going on behind closed doors...well good luck...

 

[Tomikin]

uncertain of outcome, is what drives fans. I can see why the Kiwi's are keen to have us. Opens up the Australian Market to there teams, they win pretty much every year. They really can't expand internally to enter another NZ team. Pretty much everything that we can do they are limited with.

We are limited with money and probably depth.. But more teams make more opportunity and if there's still uncertain of outcome then people will watch... more eyes more participation more opportunities eventually better Wallabies.

 

[Adam84]

Here is my prediction, Hamish may possibly stop being a hard man in papers, RA will work out what the f*** they want, and then start actually start talking. (as according to even Hamish even they don't know)
Apparently as up to yesterday, noone from NZR and RA have even spoken.
Hamish has to press and I know a few in here are saying he's a great man he standing up to NZR, but would be better if he actually did it instead of impressing a few people who believe his bullshit in papers.
I know last time I read from Hamish he said he was meeting with the new Chaiman of NZR shortly, so maybe we will actually have progress.

In saying this I may owe him an apology , but maybe it just papers misquoting him of course.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-perplexed-by-rugby-australia-chairs-outburst

NZRU CEO sums NZ attitudes with this comment; “We don’t understand what the issues, or concerns, are.’’

How you can be so blissfully unaware about the issues faced.

 

[Dan54]

The media misquoting People - surely not. If you want to believe RA is at fault read nz papers.if you want to believe NZRU is at fault read Australian papers..if you want to know the truth as to what is going on behind closed doors.well good luck.

No the quote I got from Hamish was from SMH I believe. Well I read it here anyway and thought is was quoted from there.
I actually try to read papers from everywhere if I can.

 

[Dan54]

NZRU CEO sums NZ attitudes with this comment; “We don’t understand what the issues, or concerns, are.’’

How you can be so blissfully unaware about the issues faced.

Because RA has forgotten to actually tell them what concerns are. NZR's job is to sort out NZR's issues, and not try and guess RA's which seems even they can't agree what it is, as seems their board is divided.
Although Robinson refused to fire verbal shots at the Aussies for going to the media, rather than NZ Rugby, to air concerns about next year’s proposed 12-team trans-Tasman competition he must be getting tired of these shenanigans.
Funny that, fancy not using the media, maybe just sums up the difference, one lot thinks you should talk to each other, and not play games in media, the other

But anyway, I am convinced all are looking at working towards same goal, just maybe different ways of doing it.

 

[Dan54]

I think we are past blame and desperately need an independent body to try and make this work. It is hard to otherwise see NZRU and RA working together to design and deliver a successful TT product without this.

I agree so much about an independant body to make it work, but beware an indendant body's job will be to have best comp, not one to suit NZ or Aus rugby.

You know may say something like oh 8-10 team comp with a PI team to help spread the rugby word around?
I just thing even without independant body making big talk through media is just not how it works.
Most people respect disagreement, but only honest stuff that is talked about face to face!

 

[Tomikin]

Because RA has forgotten to actually tell them what concerns are. NZR's job is to sort out NZR's issues, and not try and guess RA's which seems even they can't agree what it is, as seems their board is divided.
Although Robinson refused to fire verbal shots at the Aussies for going to the media, rather than NZ Rugby, to air concerns about next year’s proposed 12-team trans-Tasman competition he must be getting tired of these shenanigans.
Funny that, fancy not using the media, maybe just sums up the difference, one lot thinks you should talk to each other, and not play games in media, the other

But anyway, I am convinced all are looking at working towards same goal, just maybe different ways of doing it.

Ahh Dan for ever the NZRU optimism. As stated above I'm sure NZ really do want Australia to join in a 10/12 team TT, as expansion internally isn't a great option.

But on our side of the ditch, uncertain of outcome is more important then quality of competition.. As for the differences between RA and NZRU maybe its a bridge too far and we go about our own ways and meet for some crossover either during the season or after and in Tests.

40k at Suncorp 400k on tv, will be seen every 10 years if we dont give ourselves a chance.

 

[Dan54]

Ahh Dan for ever the NZRU optimism. As stated above I'm sure NZ really do want Australia to join in a 10/12 team TT, as expansion internally isn't a great option.

But on our side of the ditch, uncertain of outcome is more important then quality of competition.. As for the differences between RA and NZRU maybe its a bridge too far and we go about our own ways and meet for some crossover either during the season or after and in Tests.

40k at Suncorp 400k on tv, will be seen every 10 years if we dont give ourselves a chance.

40000 at Suncorp was great, but when sis it go from 220000 to 400000 on tv? I thought 220000 was great, and I thought it was great, 1 match had a great crowd, and tv audience, and I sure all those from Melbourne, Sydney etc etc will be celebrating that Qld got some good crowds, hell the second biggest crowd was Reds/Crusaders, which is leading me to believe that Qld along with WA are going to be savious of Aus rugby?
Hey my 2 fav teams in Aus too!!
Anyway , time for me to go to rugby fellas, so fill ya boots!!

 

[Tomikin]

40000 at Suncorp was great, but when sis it go from 220000 to 400000 on tv? I thought 220000 was great, and I thought it was great, 1 match had a great crowd, and tv audience, and I sure all those from Melbourne, Sydney etc etc will be celebrating that Qld got some good crowds, hell the second biggest crowd was Reds/Crusaders, which is leading me to believe that Qld along with WA are going to be saviors of Aus rugby?
Hey my 2 fav teams in Aus too!!
Anyway , time for me to go to rugby fellas, so fill ya boots!!

Have fun.. at rugby and it went to 400 was the max rating. But it shows though that everyone loves a winner.. and we need winners in Aus...

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I agree so much about an independant body to make it work, but beware an indendant body's job will be to have best comp, not one to suit NZ or Aus rugby.

You know may say something like oh 8-10 team comp with a PI team to help spread the rugby word around?
I just thing even without independant body making big talk through media is just not how it works.
Most people respect disagreement, but only honest stuff that is talked about face to face!

Maybe it is just that - TT really a nzru designed competition to suit Nzru interests and agendas so perhaps best for RA to bail from it and focus on own super rugby competition and start again negotiations with Jrfu and nzru on champions league on equal footing. And maybe take the nzru example and take the lead and negotiate with Jrfu and then negotiate with nzru later on their involvement.