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Where to for Super Rugby?

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Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Yep. If a proper WS franchise were to ever appear. My allegiances would immediately flip to it over the Tahs. The ARC failed due to being too close to the clubs. Providing them with too much ability to directly comment on the competitions and drive discontent among the bases. This even extends to the Tahs as demonstrated by all the 'controversy' stirred by Donaldson selection over Edmed by Edmed's club coach. The NRC actually didn't fail. Acted in the means it was intended and frankly should have been maintained.

ARC wasn't really run by the clubs at all. Clubs were assigned to franchises which they wanted no part of by the ARU, and thus basically none of them engaged with the entities at all.

The NRC failed to generate any real interest or enthusiasm in Sydney, and as sport is now more than ever entertainment I count is as a complete failure.

(Noting that it had conflicting and mutually exclusive aims from the beginning which didn't help)
Wanting to prepare players for Super Rugby, but playing under laws different from Super Rugby for one.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
The NRC failed to generate any real interest or enthusiasm in Sydney, and as sport is now more than ever entertainment I count is as a complete failure.

So that is true, but completely misreading the scenario. On their own, SRU not only did not engage, but did everything imaginable to deride the NRC. Strangely enough, NSW teams did poorly.

There was a fail, but it was not the NRC, and very much focussed on Sydney.
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
A change that is overdue is getting rid of losing bonus points. You should not be rewarded for losing

Bonus points are designed to reward attacking play.

I don't think bonus points should ever go to a team that does not score a try and should go to any team that scores three or more tries, no matter the score.

If you win a game 8 tries to 7 you don't get a point for winning, but if you lose 3-0 you get one for losing.

I think the bonus points should be used to determine the higher place on the ladder if teams have the same number of wins for the season, but not allow you to pass a team with less wins
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
So that is true, but completely misreading the scenario. On their own, SRU not only did not engage, but did everything imaginable to deride the NRC. Strangely enough, NSW teams did poorly.

There was a fail, but it was not the NRC, and very much focussed on Sydney.

Not all of the clubs failed to support the NRC at the start. You may recall that the 4 northern clubs were quite enthusiastic in setting up the Northern Sydney Rays to the extent that they even threw some cash in. Unfortunately, RA moved the goal posts and players from the clubs were drafted to other less well-organised franchises which diluted the local involvement and then RA changed it to the Sydney Rays and it was all over from that point.

Sydney Uni also tried to run a franchise and I suspect that playing at Leichhardt Oval (because the rectangular field at Uni hadn't been completed) and being forced to be in a faux joint venture with Balmain because RA stipulated that a club could not be a stand alone participant were part of the problem there.

Southern Districts, Wests and Parramatta were on board with a western group of clubs in the Sydney Rams

But there were certainly come of the clubs didn't engage at all, but as the NRC evolved even those clubs which were enthusiastic at the start became less so over time.

But my larger points are: it won't work if the clubs have generic names and they don't represent specific parts of the city and have a direct link to an established club. And in terms of the competition as a whole, all sporting organisations (except perhaps rugby) realise that you have to make it in Sydney and/or Melbourne if you want to have a successful sporting competition in Australia. Regardless of where the fault lies, if rugby can't do this then there will be a significantly reduced ability to sell sponsorships and marketing, with an obvious flow on to any broadcast deal and media exposure.

As a slightly related point - on Saturday the Waratahs played the Force. Once upon a time this would have rated at least a full page in the Sunday paper - more likely a double page spread with pictures and a couple or articles on the game and the competition as a whole. Instead the game got three very short paragraphs of summary at the bottom corner of a page lost in amongst a range of other sports. No pictures, no game analysis, just the bare minimum. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, there's only one thing worse than being criticised and that's not being talked about at all. Rugby has pretty much reached that point in the larger sporting world of Sydney.

EDIT: And I was generally supportive of the NRC when it started on the basis that there would be some club involvement and teams would have some local flavour. I now realise that this isn't really possible and existing club names, colours etc need to be incorporated to make it a success because brand recognition is important.
 

Rebel man

John Thornett (49)
It depends on the context. Going down on the bell in a 35-34 thriller probably justifies it. It could probably be tinkered with though.

I feel you should only get rewarded for winning. If you lose by one the advantage they get is that you’re only negative one on your points difference.
Bonus points are designed to reward attacking play.

I don't think bonus points should ever go to a team that does not score a try and should go to any team that scores three or more tries, no matter the score.

If you win a game 8 tries to 7 you don't get a point for winning, but if you lose 3-0 you get one for losing.

I think the bonus points should be used to determine the higher place on the ladder if teams have the same number of wins for the season, but not allow you to pass a team with less wins
I don’t mind then if they are purely as a tie breaker. But I hate how at the moment 4 close loses is the same as a win
 

Bandar

Bob Loudon (25)
As a slightly related point - on Saturday the Waratahs played the Force. Once upon a time this would have rated at least a full page in the Sunday paper - more likely a double page spread with pictures and a couple or articles on the game and the competition as a whole. Instead the game got three very short paragraphs of summary at the bottom corner of a page lost in amongst a range of other sports. No pictures, no game analysis, just the bare minimum. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, there's only one thing worse than being criticised and that's not being talked about at all. Rugby has pretty much reached that point in the larger sporting world of Sydney.

I watched the NSW (Sydney) channel 9 news sport segment last night, it covered, NRL, AFL, Cricket, Formula 1, A-League, EPL & NBL. Nothing on the Rebels-Brumbies match that finished a couple of hours earlier or nothing on the Waratahs-Force match from the night before.

Stan & 9 are doing a great job on the telecast but it would be nice if they let people know it's on.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
Not all of the clubs failed to support the NRC at the start.

Sure, nor did I suggest otherwise. The attack dog was not the clubs per se (or not all of the clubs) but the SRU. Certainly the SRU leadership.

One fundamental toxic schism in Aus rugby remains SRU-NSWRU. And the RA role within that mess.

For what it's worth, my NRC team was the Stars and I can think of few places more enjoyable to watch rugby than Leichardt. But unfortunately, RA concern over a single club being competitive at NRC was proven correct. The connection with Uni and Balmain was largely one of convenience and they were never competitive at NRC level. Balmain is a fantastic sub club and a good fun day out. But Uni have had more strength if they had found SRU club partners.

We hear often on this issue of SRU, where clubs deny that the SRU leadership speaks for them. Unfortunately the SRU leadership do in fact represent the Clubs in the SRU. The clubs, or certain clubs may feel this representation runs across their interests, but the rugby world will react to the leadership of the SRU for what it is.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
I wondering why we hearing so little about Drua's entry into Super next year. I see a lot of Moana Pacifika onTV etc here in NZ anyway, but haven't heard a peep out of Drua camp. Was watching Breakdown last night and Kevin Senio was on it, and that's when it rammed home I still personally haven't seen anyone from Drua talking on it. I really feel they need a presence on tv etc if they are looking to attract backing. I can see at this rate Moana Pacifika in the comp and Fijian players being involved there.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Sure, nor did I suggest otherwise. The attack dog was not the clubs per se (or not all of the clubs) but the SRU. Certainly the SRU leadership.

One fundamental toxic schism in Aus rugby remains SRU-NSWRU. And the RA role within that mess.

For what it's worth, my NRC team was the Stars and I can think of few places more enjoyable to watch rugby than Leichardt. But unfortunately, RA concern over a single club being competitive at NRC was proven correct. The connection with Uni and Balmain was largely one of convenience and they were never competitive at NRC level. Balmain is a fantastic sub club and a good fun day out. But Uni have had more strength if they had found SRU club partners.

We hear often on this issue of SRU, where clubs deny that the SRU leadership speaks for them. Unfortunately the SRU leadership do in fact represent the Clubs in the SRU. The clubs, or certain clubs may feel this representation runs across their interests, but the rugby world will react to the leadership of the SRU for what it is.
Yep that was enjoyable time for me as I was one of the regular up to 500 people attending stars games at leichardt oval as stones throw from where I live. I still have my stars cap and polo shirt. I also have rays cap as watched rams and rays local games. I was an nrc junkie as usually went to 3 games a season which out of 10 week comp was a lot for me.

I really enjoyed the nrc Sydney games played at small club grounds as watched nrc games at leichardt, concord oval, Eastwood, woolahara and Manly
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
I wondering why we hearing so little about Drua's entry into Super next year. I see a lot of Moana Pacifika onTV etc here in NZ anyway, but haven't heard a peep out of Drua camp. Was watching Breakdown last night and Kevin Senio was on it, and that's when it rammed home I still personally haven't seen anyone from Drua talking on it. I really feel they need a presence on tv etc if they are looking to attract backing. I can see at this rate Moana Pacifika in the comp and Fijian players being involved there.

The word on twitter from Daniel Leo is the opposite - Drua are well organised and getting on with Job, Moana Pasifika not looking so well put together.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Good to hear, they have got the advantage of having a firm base to work off, so can well believe that. I don't suppose we going to hear about any recruits or anything until final of given, as wouldn't imagine anyone will want names out in public just in case.

Got to remember the Drua were involved in both NRC and also had Fiji team in GRR (ok exhibition games largely) but point being they have some basic organisation constructs in place....obviously will need to recruit some outside players but can probably balance with some local talent.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Good to hear, they have got the advantage of having a firm base to work off, so can well believe that. I don't suppose we going to hear about any recruits or anything until final of given, as wouldn't imagine anyone will want names out in public just in case.

Seems unlikely that they will recruit big names. I think the main issue will still be that the Fijian test sides don't pay, as we use test rugby to substantially top up the salaries of our best players (and still largely fall under their overall valuation, I suspect).

Any of the big name guys would be salary sacrificing a huge chunk to come back. Guys like Radradra, Nadolo, Tuisava etc.

Fuck knows how this Moana Pacifika side will attract any talent.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Seems unlikely that they will recruit big names. I think the main issue will still be that the Fijian test sides don't pay, as we use test rugby to substantially top up the salaries of our best players (and still largely fall under their overall valuation, I suspect).

Any of the big name guys would be salary sacrificing a huge chunk to come back. Guys like Radradra, Nadolo, Tuisava etc.

Fuck knows how this Moana Pacifika side will attract any talent.

Moana Pacifika will I imagine attract players the same way as Drua, that's why they reckoning they will need $10 mil a year I think. Moana Pacifika have said they working on same pay scale as NZ teams, and assume so would Drua, or close to it. I reckon Drua would need probably 5-8 good super level players to go with their team (and I good 3-4 of them to be test level), MP (Moana Pasifika) because they starting with nothing I assume could maybe look at same mixed with better players in Islands and eligible players in NZ and Aus at about NPC and NRC level. I know MP (Moana Pasifika) have said that up to 10 players don't actually have to be eligible for Samoa or Tonga ,so could make room for former ABs etc to slot in. I hope Fiji do similar.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Moana Pacifika will I imagine attract players the same way as Drua, that's why they reckoning they will need $10 mil a year I think. Moana Pacifika have said they working on same pay scale as NZ teams, and assume so would Drua, or close to it. I reckon Drua would need probably 5-8 good super level players to go with their team (and I good 3-4 of them to be test level), MP (Moana Pasifika) because they starting with nothing I assume could maybe look at same mixed with better players in Islands and eligible players in NZ and Aus at about NPC and NRC level. I know MP (Moana Pasifika) have said that up to 10 players don't actually have to be eligible for Samoa or Tonga ,so could make room for former ABs etc to slot in. I hope Fiji do similar.

But Pacifika play out of NZ. So they somehow have to cobble together an entire team of largely Pacifika eligible Super Rugby level players, but aren't even based out of the pacific islands.

Drua have a base and a clearer pool of players to recruit from.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
But Pacifika play out of NZ. So they somehow have to cobble together an entire team of largely Pacifika eligible Super Rugby level players, but aren't even based out of the pacific islands.

Drua have a base and a clearer pool of players to recruit from.


I agree mate, but I not sure if you realise that usually the Samoan rugby test team is made up with a lot more NZ residential players than Samoan anyway, I guessing Tonga would have a fair few too. So most of their players wouldn't actually relocate to another country. I am guessing Drua will be looking at Aus and NZ to recruit a lot of players too, they sure not going to last with residents. The one thing maybe MP (Moana Pasifika) have an advantage is being set up outside of Samoan and Tongan rugby boards they will feel more confident of getting their pay, because unfortunately reportedly they sometimes waiting quite some time for payments from their unions. I was pleased to hear Senio say they intend to play a few games in Apia, and in Tonga when they get a stadium.
 
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