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Where did we go wrong? Wallaby Recovery thread.

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Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
O'Conner was going for the intercept in Smith's first try.

O'Conner has been pretty well smashed for that first try but in reality, it took a pretty remarkable off-load - and quite a risky one at that, if O'Conner had intercepted he was GONE - to get Smith over the line.

If he had intercepted that ball then everyone would probably be saying what a great read he made.....
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
O'Conner has been pretty well smashed for that first try but in reality, it took a pretty remarkable off-load - and quite a risky one at that, if O'Conner had intercepted he was GONE - to get Smith over the line.

If he had intercepted that ball then everyone would probably be saying what a great read he made...



O'Conner is a risk taker, like Cooper & Beale, the errors come as part of the package
 
M

Muttonbird

Guest
O'Conner has been pretty well smashed for that first try but in reality, it took a pretty remarkable off-load - and quite a risky one at that, if O'Conner had intercepted he was GONE - to get Smith over the line.

If he had intercepted that ball then everyone would probably be saying what a great read he made...

Set the tone of the match. Decided early to try be the glory boy. Didn't rate Cruden's flick pass. Did all this in under 3 minutes.
 

Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
Ok, my 34 cents.


Stop whining you big bunch of fannies. It was the first game under a a new coach, with 4 debutants in the back line. Against New Zealand. We would probably have beaten everyone else.

I see a lot of positives in it:
We scored 28 points against NZ. Lealiifano is dominating that kicking tee (touch wood). All of NZ's points came directly from our mistakes. Very easily corrected mistakes. They didn't come from multiple phases of pressure or momens of total domination against the entire wallabies team.

Beiber: went in for the first try, probably should have stayed out. However, as its been said it took a magical offload to get that ball out, and 90% of the time that ball would have either been intercepted and run away for 7 points, or died in Crudens hands and Berber would then have been in n ideal position to get into that ruck and try and slow it down. The rest of the game he was good. Made a lot of meters, combined well with Cooper at the end, and was generally ok. Hasn't played a test match on the wing for two years, so I'm prepared to give him a couple of games to get back into the swing of it.

Mogg: wtf? Why the hate? First mistake Moore dropped a stock standard offload, after taking an excellent high ball under pressure. His offload to no one was clearly just a fuck up (gee, when was the last time one of our backs threw a speculative offload and it didn't come off), thinking AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was just inside him. His high ball work was excellent, positioning excellent, commitment to everything was good, just some poor execution. I counted maybe 3 kicks that he got, and one of hem was a pearler that gained us 40 meters.
Why the hell is everyone calling for his head? Grow a bloody spine. How the hell can our TEAM improve if never actually pick one and stick with it? NZ are so good because the core of this team has been playing together since before Dingo even started as a coach, and they have played more or less the same team for 6 years. That is why they dominate and know how to win. If we change our team again, how do we get combinations to form? How do we get the players to work as a group to achieve things? If you work out a tactic in one game with your centre partner, how the hell does it help the team if he isn't around next week?
This team is the best team we have put out in years. If it isn't good enough yet, you don't fucking change it, you keep playing it and work on each thing they do wrong until they are the best. Jesus h Christ. We got poor service at the ruck from genia, which flowed on to To'omua, but why? NZ dominated the breakdown and slowed down all our ball. Do you really think that link hasn't identified that and spent the whole week working on accuracy there and at the clean out, to make sure we get quick ball?
Mogul is the next Chris Latham. He will continue to mix shockers with moments of genius for the next few years and once he settles into that jersey, he will own the rugby field like Latham did. Give the kid a chance to actually work on his game improve his performance, like every single other player in international rugby has been allowed to.
To'omua: again why the hate? It was his debut test for fuck sake, what did you expect? He nailed his tackles, distributed well, kicked reasonably well and didn't have a howler. Bloody fantastic, I can think of far worse debuts! All he needs to do now, and I'm sure he's been practicing this, is mix it up a bit. A few inside balls, taking the ball to the line more and suddenly our attack will look much more threatening. Everyone hails coopers attacking game but try and cast your minds back to his debuts for the reds and wallabies: for all his skills he couldn't run a back line and anything he created was just total individualism. Too us has already started much, much more effectively. I guarantee Bernie has been on the phone to him all week giving him tips, as would link and cooper and everyone else. Give him a chance to come out in a few days and take it to the line more.

Other observations: sio needs more game time, horwill was shat all over by Simmons and the other 2nd rows out there, what's wrong with him? Start blaming him and genia for our backs being under pressure all night! Madness was AWOL and apparently injured which explains a lot. Mowen was a bit quiet but ran our line out well. Needs to practice his scrum clearance. Hooper was good, but he doesn't compete at the breakdown like gill, and I think early on we need gills ability to go toe to toe with ruchie is crucial. I'd be starting gill and letting hooper run amok with fresh legs after 50 mins. Genia was terrible, try aside. White looked much, much better when he came on. Lealiifano and acc need a bit more time to gel, the defense is not hugely strong yet but will get there. They need to be more aggressive. Folau needs to go looking for work. Fardy was awesome when he came on, can't wait to see him start.

All in all, I'd give us a 6.5 for the game. We were down by 3 points with 20mins to go, and in the first game with so many new faces, that's a damn good effort.

I reckon we will win this week, by 5 or less, and I reckon Mogg and To'omua are going to be at the forefront of it all.

PS im typing this on an apple product, an iPad. So please excuse all the typos and random words. Who invented this piece of shit product and then had the temerity to advertise it as something that would improve the quality of your life? What a fluffybunny.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
But the thing about Mogg is this- some of us had doubts about his ability to handle top-flight, test rugby. This was based on a few things- his tendency to go missing in big games for the Brumbies, his lack of physicality, and his occasional reliance on low-percentage plays.

I still would have picked him, but I was worried. And our worries were proven. He made quite a few mistakes which the ABs capitalised on- shanked kicks (one of which gave the ABs the pill and position from which McCaw scored) and missed tackles.

I don't disagree that he deserves another chance, but I can't stand people talking about him as the 'next Latham'. He isn't the next anything, not after two fucking tests. He COULD be a very good player but this isn't a foregone conclusion, and he won't magically turn into one if we give him unlimited game time.

So I am all for Mogg, but I don't believe he will simply turn into a great player if we all provide him with unlimited support and love. After all we have Israel Folau, and he is on a path to be the next Lomu.......
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
I don't disagree that he deserves another chance, but I can't stand people talking about him as the 'next Latham'. He isn't the next anything, not after two fucking tests. He COULD be a very good player but this isn't a foregone conclusion, and he won't magically turn into one if we give him unlimited game time.

So I am all for Mogg, but I don't believe he will simply turn into a great player if we all provide him with unlimited support and love. After all we have Israel Folau, and he is on a path to be the next Lomu...

Mogg's selection in the run-on team was always iffy based on what he had done this season. He had already showed he is just too raw for 15, which is a key position on the team spine. He played all season in a team whose gameplan was based on kicking long out of your own half and was never able to even attempt a playmaker role or joining the line close in to the 10/12 channel.

You could have made a case for playing him on the wing. He is incredibly quick and having a trained full-back on the wing gives you lots of options under a high ball attack from the opposition. If I recall correctly Matt Burke played more than a year of test rugby as a winger before he was given the 15 shirt, and he was a lot slower than Mogg. Mogg is a talent now and at some time in the future MAY be a legend, but he's not a legend now. If he had been eased in to the test side first as a winger, then tried at 15 on the EOYT that could have been justified.

When you have a player who has had a stellar season at 15 and who the NZ team were so afraid of that they kept the ball on the other side of the field for the whole game, why on earth wouldn't you pick him there. Selecting Mogg at 15 once was a mistake, doing it twice in successive tests against the best team in the world is a very, very bad mistake. In my opinion its incomprehensible.

The right selection was Mogg and JOC (James O'Connor) on the wings, Izzy at 15 and Honeybadger on the bench. The badger would then cover 11,13 and 14. Kuridrani's very young, his time will come. You could argue that either Mogg or JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench and HB starting and I wouldn't disagree.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I don't disagree that he deserves another chance, but I can't stand people talking about him as the 'next Latham'. He isn't the next anything, not after two fucking tests. He COULD be a very good player but this isn't a foregone conclusion, and he won't magically turn into one if we give him unlimited game time.

So I am all for Mogg, but I don't believe he will simply turn into a great player if we all provide him with unlimited support and love. After all we have Israel Folau, and he is on a path to be the next Lomu...

Heh.........
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
I think Mogg has huge potential as a test fullback. His running is remniscent of Cullen, not quite Cullen's pace, but a real slipperiness and speed suited to fullback. Add his usually excellent kicking and he becomes very desirable. His defence worries me I will say.
 

something

Jim Clark (26)
both Hawko and Brumbieman make very good points.... we weren't that bad, but there could be a bit of shuffling. I like the idea of Mogg going to wing and either JOC (James O'Connor) or Folau playing 15.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
His running is remniscent of Cullen, not quite Cullen's pace
Mogg is extremely quick, and was clocked at one second over the last 10m of a 40m sprint this year:

..... Not usually prone to hyperbole, renowned Brumbies performance director Dean Benton lauded Mogg's development over the past 18 months. Moggs latest test results surpass any Benton had encountered across the three major football codes in Australia. Mogg's results put him on par with famed Springbok flyer Brian Habana.​
"Jesse attained a max speed of 10.06m/sec at the end of pre-season this year," Benton said.​
"This is the fastest maximum speed I have seen recorded by any player, of any code, anywhere in the world to my knowledge. When he arrived here he had a max around 9.7m/sec -- so it is a substantial improvement in such a short space of time." .....​
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
I'm not a back - so please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't his defence be more easily targeted/exposed on the wing?
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
I'm not a back - so please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't his defence be more easily targeted/exposed on the wing?

Depends on if they go through or around the line. I'd say wingers get tested more regularly but a fullback can be 'truly' isolated on occasions.
 

dangerousdave

Frank Nicholson (4)
The tragedy being our fastest is just approaching their fastest, but I'd back them to have a heap more quick athletes than us.


What evidence do you have for that? The previous post just said that Mogg is as fast as the guy who was considered to be the fastest player in rugby (for a time). Additionally, from memory JOC (James O'Connor) seems to be consistently as fast or faster than just about anybody going around. Where are these athletes that are quicker than us?
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
O'Conner was going for the intercept in Smith's first try.

O'Connor was doing nothing. He was never going to a) help in the tackle, b) take an intercept or c) mark the winger.

Completely caught in no mans land. Cardinal sin in my book.
 
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