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When the choke gets beyond a joke

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MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
Is this thread for real? Whoever started it was just asking for a bashing. Forward pass, refs, whatever. If we were better than France on that fateful day, we would have beaten them. End Of.

Cheats, chokers, can see a bit of theme running around GAGR here!

Hope the next ch used to refer to the All Blacks is Champions!
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
If the pass went forward out of the hands, it was by a small fraction at most, over a short distance. Almost impossible for a referee that is not completely in line with the play to pick up.

It was close however you look at it. The touchie was pretty much in line with the pass but Rokocoko was directly in between the touchie and Michalak. He would have been at least somewhat unsighted and possibly completely unsighted. Making a call on a line ball pass in that situation would have been almost impossible for him too.

Realistically, the only way where a pass like this will be pulled up is if it happens against the home team and the crowd make such a massive groan that the referee makes a decision based on the crowd.
 
J

Jay

Guest
If the pass went forward out of the hands, it was by a small fraction at most, over a short distance. Almost impossible for a referee that is not completely in line with the play to pick up.

It was close however you look at it. The touchie was pretty much in line with the pass but Rokocoko was directly in between the touchie and Michalak. He would have been at least somewhat unsighted and possibly completely unsighted. Making a call on a line ball pass in that situation would have been almost impossible for him too.

Realistically, the only way where a pass like this will be pulled up is if it happens against the home team and the crowd make such a massive groan that the referee makes a decision based on the crowd.

Yeah, that's why I don't really blame Barnes for that particular call - there was a very small window to be able to accurately call it and neither official were able to get a good look.
 

hedgo

Frank Nicholson (4)
MJ, i am also over the chokers thing. just as boring and childish as the cheat stuff.
want nothing better than to the wallabies to win. to win beating the all blacks in the final would make it complete.
however i could well and truly live with the blacks being champs. they are bloody good and are not nearly as cynical as they are made out to be. it would also make sense in terms of their recent dominance of the game. i don't think anyone could argue that they haven't earned it.
the reason people go on about the choking thing and the cheat thing is that the blacks scare the shit out of them. once that cat's out of the bag the contest is half over. there was no need for us to complain about the kiwis after brisbane cos we did what we needed to do. we showed up finally and the result went our way. that's all we have ever needed to do. rather than bleat and moan.
does anybody in their right mind prefer to see the boks or the english win over the kiwis if we are knocked out?
i could live with france winning cos you know if they do they will have played some great rugby to get there. no-one else is a realistic chance
 

Roundawhile

Billy Sheehan (19)
I would like to see a poll of members as to how many bring up the CHOCKER tag to :-
1) Take the piss in a convivial way (simply because TTP is a national pastime)
2) Take the piss to try to upset our friends on the other side of the ditch or
3) Because you really believe can not win the big games

Thoughts ?
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Choking means you had a team good enough to win, I don't believe they ever did.

I wish we'd stop calling them chokers, we're saying they are better side than their opponents who beat them.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Choking means you had a team good enough to win, I don't believe they ever did.

I wish we'd stop calling them chokers, we're saying they are better side than their opponents who beat them.

On paper they are. Better side, on the day they get outplayed. That means they either didn't turn up, played crap, chocked, got outplayed by a team no as good on paper.

They definitely have played within there ability in a few games in question and have lost there mental edge during the process, choking is fair and funny.
 
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proton

Guest
The startling, yet unsurprising, thing I get from that photo is that the AB is tackling the man before he receives the ball.

The pass was forward it was the video ref who said it was a forward pass the ref wanted a ruling on the grounding but the video ref asked him to confirm if he wanted to confirm whether it was a try or not if you listen to the audio he asks the ref again and thats the ABs gripe over the ruling of the video ref. In the end they were happy it was a forward pass and that the video ref can rule for the complete sequence and not just the grounding.
 
P

proton

Guest
Only way to get rid of the chokers tag is for the ABs to win only team in their road on form is Aussie. This aint a home final if both teams get through Aussie will have just as much support if not more..

MJ, i am also over the chokers thing. just as boring and childish as the cheat stuff.
want nothing better than to the wallabies to win. to win beating the all blacks in the final would make it complete.
however i could well and truly live with the blacks being champs. they are bloody good and are not nearly as cynical as they are made out to be. it would also make sense in terms of their recent dominance of the game. i don't think anyone could argue that they haven't earned it.
the reason people go on about the choking thing and the cheat thing is that the blacks scare the shit out of them. once that cat's out of the bag the contest is half over. there was no need for us to complain about the kiwis after brisbane cos we did what we needed to do. we showed up finally and the result went our way. that's all we have ever needed to do. rather than bleat and moan.
does anybody in their right mind prefer to see the boks or the english win over the kiwis if we are knocked out?
i could live with france winning cos you know if they do they will have played some great rugby to get there. no-one else is a realistic chance
 

MrTimms

Ken Catchpole (46)
Article from 2007. If anything, the chokers thing might make them a little less cocky.

Thank goodness for the great World Cup jersey fiasco this week. Apart from recalling what the dastardly French did in 1999, when they cheated the All Blacks out of their birthright by playing a spell of blindingly brilliant rugby, it's been difficult to get overly concerned about Sunday's quarter-final in Cardiff.

So an apparel conspiracy and a delayed coin toss to decide who wears the alternate strip have stepped in to fill the build-up breach.

Not that it matters, because the All Blacks could play in sackcloths and they'd still stomp all over France.

The scoreboard shows that the only things that have got closer between these two countries over the past five years are the jersey colours. It's always dangerous relying on statistics but in this case they are impossible to ignore.

A warning here: French people with faint hearts should avert their eyes. And young French people: ask your parents first before reading them.

Since the two sides drew in 2002, New Zealand has played France seven times while France has hardly played at all.

During this spell the try-scoring is dead even - between Joe Rokocoko and France - at six all. But if you bring other factors into the picture, such as counting the tries scored by the other All Blacks, the score stands at All Blacks 37, France six.

Admittedly, France used a dud side in New Zealand this year but at times they actually played better than their supposed top team has in recent seasons.

Since the 2002 draw in Paris, the average score is 41-11 in the All Blacks' favour, which is mild compared to the humiliation dished out to the French scrum.

Another interesting statistic is that France's core includes players who are almost as old as England's, which is saying something. This French side is well past its prime. Christophe Dominici, Serge Betsen, Fabian Pelous, Raphael Ibanez, Pieter de Villiers, Olivier Milloud - these blokes are old enough to swap rugby stories with Mike Catt.

That's enough about statistics.

France's problems start at the top, with their coach Bernard Laporte.

The man is a ticking time bomb, and not only in hotel lobbies. While most coaches regard matches as events to be studied at the time so as to rearrange tactics and sort out clever substitutions, Laporte can be observed in the stands throwing sudden one-man parties. Sometimes you wonder if he's actually doing a pump class via his laptop.

One thing is certain - he must have had a serious brain explosion when picking David Skrela at first five-eighths against Argentina.

Maybe Laporte took his eye off the ball. After all, he is preparing to become France's national sports minister, he does have thousands of personally signed jerseys to auction, there are also French ham adverts to worry about, plus many business dealings to attend to.

Even then, David Skrela for Freddie Michalak? No wonder Laporte is called "Crazy Bernie".

Which reminds me. According to the English Telegraph newspaper, Laporte prepared his side to face Argentina by getting one of his reserves to read the letter of a teenage World War II resistance fighter, written on the eve of his execution.

In all honesty, even a non-Frenchman hearing that letter today would be left emotionally drained and even distressed at the evils of war. God knows what it was like for the French players, listening to that before a major match.

Maybe Laporte has got a few musings from Joan of Arc ready for Sunday morning.

One thing is for sure. With Laporte in charge, All Black supporters can already break out the wine, and those who have travelled to the tournament can even break out bottles of wine with Laporte's logo on them.

It is, of course, our national duty to be hellishly nervous before a World Cup quarter-final, but it's difficult to even get a little twitchy this time no matter how many people insist on saying "France are capable of anything".

Bernard Laporte is capable of anything, but his rugby team ain't.

The All Blacks may not have reached the standards which the initial part of Graham Henry's reign suggested they would reach at the World Cup. But they are still well honed, with a forward pack in the prime of its career and enough clout in the backs to deal with the likes of France.

Laporte may have friends in high places and be headed for higher office, but by Sunday he'll know there won't be rugby's most prized silverware to put on his new mantelpiece.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10467331
 

#1?

Larry Dwyer (12)
Interesting psychological concept, the whole choker thing - Is it the glass half empty or half full?

If the NZRT do not win this RWC they will be "chokers". Little credit will be given to how well they do before they "choke"

There was a cricketer recently (name eludes me) who got out for 196 runs. His quote went along the lines of "Everyone is concerned about the 4 runs I didn't get, not the 196 runs I did get".
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
All they have to do is win it a few times, until then every time the kiwis get cocky about how they are so much better than other countries, which is usually in the two years approaching the cup, they are gonna cop this flack. They have been favourites every cup since 87, and failed to get through. 1 loss is readily explained, 5 is not. A quarter of a century.

Even if they win this one it won't dispel the tag, not when they have home ground advantage. In RWC2015 the question will be raised, and often.

I'm not saying this to wind Kiwis up, I practically am one. I follow the ABs almost as avidly as the Wallabies. Ever since 87 I have seen the kiwis have huge self belief on the back of the ABs test wins, and dismiss the RWC losses for various reasons. Last year, hell even up to a couple months back, on various boards any kiwi with a keyboard, including dare I say it some here, were more than happy to pay out on the 'wannabes' 'wobblies' etc. I have even seen posts belittling others RWC achievements, dismissing them as lucky, and trying to say the RWC isn't that important, that it ruins the game. is the choker jibe really that much of a surprise?

None of which alters the fact that the ABs are rightly the most admired team in rugby and for the most part always have been.
 
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daz

Guest
I'm not saying this to wind Kiwis up, I practically am one. I follow the ABs almost as avidly as the Wallabies.

Now here is someone who doesn't know if he is Arthur or Martha...actually, that last bit is an abomination of nature.

Come on Athilnaur, get off the fence! :)
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
Haha, call me conflicted.

Like many here I have kiwi connections, but only one jersey - gold. Crazy thing is being in Victoria practically the only people I can talk rugby with are Kiwis. Hoping the Rebels will change that a bit.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
I'm not. But it has to be used judiciously. If you have an excellent sledge, you don't yell it out every ball. Just when it might exert maximum pressure.
 
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