When the choke gets beyond a joke

[Braveheart81]

It will only be a choke if the ABs go out in the quarter or semi.

If they make the final and lose to Australia or England I wouldn't call it a choke. Both those teams would need to play an amazing game to beat the ABs and I think calling that a choke would be disrespectful to everyone involved.

 

[matty_k]

I think if they make the final it will depend on how they play will determine whether it is a choke or not.

 

[Bullrush]

I think if they make the final it will depend on how they play will determine whether it is a choke or not.

It doesn't matter how we play - everyone else will call it choke no matter what.

Look at 2007 - we got screwed and even our own call it a choke. Nothing less than winning the whole thing will do for the ABs.

 

[DPK]

It doesn't matter how we play - everyone else will call it choke no matter what.

Look at 2007 - we got screwed and even our own call it a choke. Nothing less than winning the whole thing will do for the ABs.

Problem with this mentality is that it not only draws attention away from where it should be, NZ's performance in the rest of that game, but it's disrespectful to the French, who played their socks off.

I thought you guys hated disrespect?

 

[matty_k]

It doesn't matter how we play - everyone else will call it choke no matter what.

Look at 2007 - we got screwed and even our own call it a choke. Nothing less than winning the whole thing will do for the ABs.

Good point.

 

[wikman]

But you would have to say the AB's are almost unbeatable at Eden Park in a semi or final in front of 50 thousand screaming Kiwi's

 

[matty_k]

But you would have to say the AB's are almost unbeatable at Eden Park in a semi or final in front of 50 thousand screaming Kiwi's

That will be what keeps them in check come finals time.

 

[Jnor]

But you would have to say the AB's are almost unbeatable at Eden Park in a semi or final in front of 50 thousand screaming Kiwi's

I'm wondering whether the crowds will be a bit less than the usual 99% Kiwi with a couple from the oppo team thrown in with the duration/profile of the RWC and presumablly greater numbers of overseas suppporters in NZ.

Personally I'd love to see a NZ 'home' crowd like the ones we get over here - that might even things up a bit

 

[Bullrush]

Problem with this mentality is that it not only draws attention away from where it should be, NZ's performance in the rest of that game, but it's disrespectful to the French, who played their socks off.

I thought you guys hated disrespect?

It's not disrespect at all. France won by what? 2 points? They scored the winning try off a huge forward pass and I don't think they were penalised once in the last quarter - despite a number of infringements while the ABs were in their half and in their 22.

But it's in the books as they say and it is what it is. My point is that regardless of whether the ABs are knocked out of the world cup because the opposition is better, or they play poorly, or extremely bad reffing decisions, or the whole coaching staff and playing squad is killed an a freak accident and we end up playing the Auckland Secondary School Boys 15 in the final as a result - if we lose, the 'chokers' tag will remain.

 

[daz]

My point is that regardless of whether the ABs are knocked out of the world cup because the opposition is better, or they play poorly, or extremely bad reffing decisions, or the whole coaching staff and playing squad is killed an a freak accident and we end up playing the Auckland Secondary School Boys 15 in the final as a result - if we lose, the 'chokers' tag will remain.

Yes, perception is reality, as they say. Nothing short of a RWC win will finally get the chokers tag off the AB's back.

The problem is that if the Darkness fail to win the Cup at home the chokers tag may stay forever, regardless of what happens in future tournaments....

Massive pressure. It has to be affecting the playing group to some degree.

 

[DPK]

It's not disrespect at all. France won by what? 2 points? They scored the winning try off a huge forward pass and I don't think they were penalised once in the last quarter - despite a number of infringements while the ABs were in their half and in their 22.

It reminds me of when someone tries to sledge someone beating them by saying "You're shit". If they were so bad, what does that say about NZ?

 

[antipodean]

Problem with this mentality is that it not only draws attention away from where it should be, NZ's performance in the rest of that game, but it's disrespectful to the French, who played their socks off.

Not really. Only the ignorant and trolls would deny that the refereeing performance turned what should have been a close win to the All Blacks into a close loss. That doesn't do the French any disrespect. They played as well as the referee permitted them, which was enough to win and rightfully so.

 

[whatty]

Not really. Only the ignorant and trolls would deny that the refereeing performance turned what should have been a close win to the All Blacks into a close loss.

Its like a stuck record...............................................................

 

[DPK]

Not really. Only the ignorant and trolls would deny that the refereeing performance turned what should have been a close win to the All Blacks into a close loss. That doesn't do the French any disrespect. They played as well as the referee permitted them, which was enough to win and rightfully so.

I can see how that would be frustrating. But as a Waratahs fan who's watched us lose under his eye a few times, I redirect frustration towards the ref towards the players; if they were good enough, they would have negated the impact of the ref.

 

[cyclopath]

All joking about choking aside, in the games NZ has lost at RWCs, I would only nominate 2007 as one they really should have won. 1991 Aus outplayed them, 1995 was a titanic battle and they were just edged by SA (no shame in that), 1999 France played a 1 in 20 year half of rugby, 2003 they were again outplayed by Aus. France played OK in 2007, but despite the forward pass, NZ should have had the experience and nous to win that match.
So not chokers at all.
IMO.

 

[Bullrush]

I can see how that would be frustrating. But as a Waratahs fan who's watched us lose under his eye a few times, I redirect frustration towards the ref towards the players; if they were good enough, they would have negated the impact of the ref.

I don't totally disagree but as a Waratahs fan, you surely wouldn't be surprised at the HUGE amount of wailing from some of your fellow Tah fans whenever Kaplan is awarded one of their games.

The ABs had to be a lot better than they were in 2007 to beat the French and negate the poor reffing - no doubt. I say they were actually good enough and they played well enough that day to only beat the French.

Hopefully they're good enough to beat all-comers this time round.

 

[Bullrush]

Yes, perception is reality, as they say. Nothing short of a RWC win will finally get the chokers tag off the AB's back.

The problem is that if the Darkness fail to win the Cup at home the chokers tag may stay forever, regardless of what happens in future tournaments....
Massive pressure. It has to be affecting the playing group to some degree.

I almost started welling up with tears of grief just thinking about that.....lol

 

[Mica]

Not really. Only the ignorant and trolls would deny that the refereeing performance turned what should have been a close win to the All Blacks into a close loss. That doesn't do the French any disrespect. They played as well as the referee permitted them, which was enough to win and rightfully so.

Any close loss can usually be blamed on decisions made by the referee.

Was the pass forward? Maybe.

If NZ had thrown it for the winning try would you have said so? Maybe?

Was it an obvious bad decision by the ref?
I don't think so based on where he is on the ground when the pass was thrown it would have been impossible for him to call it forward.

Was it actually forward?
At first inspection it looks suspect/border line.
When I slow it down frame by frame it looks like Michalak is behind Traille when the ball is released and it is passed backward.
See below for frame (video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUS8FfW8hOg&feature=player_embedded)

So in my opinion a fifty/fifty call went against the Blacks and that ended up being the difference.
This kind of hard luck story can be told by any sporting team in any sport.
I have certainly seen teams lose from significantly worse decisions meaning other teams have won from them as well.

Can you think of any times when New Zealand have won games because of a bad call by the ref?? :fishing

Just asking ??? >

 

[Bullrush]

Any close loss can usually be blamed on decisions made by the referee.
Was the pass forward? Maybe.

If NZ had thrown it for the winning try would you have said so? Maybe?

Was it an obvious bad decision by the ref?
I don't think so based on where he is on the ground when the pass was thrown it would have been impossible for him to call it forward.

Was it actually forward?
At first inspection it looks suspect/border line.
When I slow it down frame by frame it looks like Michalak is behind Traille when the ball is released and it is passed backward.
See below for frame (video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUS8FfW8hOg&feature=player_embedded)

So in my opinion a fifty/fifty call went against the Blacks and that ended up being the difference.
This kind of hard luck story can be told by any sporting team in any sport.
I have certainly seen teams lose from significantly worse decisions meaning other teams have won from them as well.

Can you think of any times when New Zealand have won games because of a bad call by the ref?? :fishing

Just asking ??? >

1. There are plenty of close games that aren't decided by the ref. It's just the ones that do often get more attention.

2. Was the pass forward? YES.

3. Wasn't there a forward pass that denied the ABs a pretty important try just a few weeks ago? Most AB supporters (and the ABs themselves) agreed that the right decision was made.

Anyway - my point again wasn't about this game but that nothing but a RWC victory can get rid of the 'chokers' tag whether it's a deserved tag or not.

 

[terry j]

Was the pass forward? Maybe.

Not from that you tube clip, no way you'd call it forward.