What to do with JOC (James O'Connor)?

[Swarley]

Bench. We finally got the balance of the backline right last night. Especially with Quade kicking so well. Besides, he's not a better winger than either of Ioane and Mitchell.

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Mitchell
12. McCabe
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. Ioane
15. Beale
------------------
21. Burgess- 9
22. O'Connor- 10, 11, 12, 14, 15

 

[kiap]

There is no chance at all - zero, nada - that JOC (James O'Connor) will be moved in front of Barnes for the replacement 10 spot if Barnes is fit, and rightly so. Barnes is an experienced international 10 and a very good one. JOC (James O'Connor) is still so wet behind the ears it isn't funny.

You're right there, Groucho. And I think Deans will have Barnes pencilled in too (fitness assumed).

All the same, I'd like to see JOC (James O'Connor) get some time off the bench to give Barnes a spell at flyhalf in the mid 2nd half for one, or even two, of the pool games.

There will be injuries/suspensions and I still think the kid will add something special to this WC campaign. He can do a job in several positions but he's really a 10, not a winger or a fullback. The ego and 'brand' need to be kept in check but I can see him playing a crucial cameo role.

 

[vidiot]

Beale hasn't grubbered for the past half dozen games - someone obviously sent him your text a few months ago.

It is understandable that you missed it, because it was entirely forgettable, but.....

Beale grubbers at 16:56 after a superb charge by samo and good hit-up by Horwill. There were ample and able players around him (Pocock and Ioane) on a short blind to really do some damage. It goes all of 2 metres and he over runs it as the all blacks pick it up and counter.

[video]http://youtu.be/cCRCZJUrtX4#t=5m49s[/video]

 

[wamberal]

And who is our goalkicker, chaps? We will not win the Cup without a reliable and consistent goalkicker. I would not be at all surprised to see Barnes in the 12 shirt for that very reason.

 

[Scotty]

The thought of having Mitchell and Ioane on the wings with JOC (James O'Connor) as a super sub has me far more exited than JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing.

It's great, but who the hell kicks for goal? Cooper is too inconsistent and will likely lose us one game with his poor kicking.

 

[Train Without a Station]

O'Conner has exactly been match winning with the boot in 2011 himself though.

 

[Newter]

Unfourtunatley you are correct.

Is there all that much between A-Cooper and O'Connor? They are much of a muchness, IMO. Very good with the sideline, keeping the ball in play, making hard meters with footwork and leg drive.

It's academic anyway, as Drew Mitchell will take that wing spot surely.

 

[H...]

Is there all that much between A-Cooper and O'Connor? They are much of a muchness, IMO. Very good with the sideline, keeping the ball in play, making hard meters with footwork and leg drive.

It's academic anyway, as Drew Mitchell will take that wing spot surely.

I must have missed the period when Mitchell was such a superstar that he can now walk back into the side that just won the 3N

 

[farva]

I must have missed the period when Mitchell was such a superstar that he can now walk back into the side that just won the 3N

Yup. I guess you did.
Perhaps you were asleep?

To be fair, Drew Mitchell is one of the most exciting players out there. I would have him in a heartbeat on the wing over AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to the centres for either A Finger or McCabe for me).

 

[Ignoto]

I must have missed the period when Mitchell was such a superstar that he can now walk back into the side that just won the 3N

Well, with that logic, JOC (James O'Connor) was missing from the team photo as well.

 

[H...]

Yup. I guess you did.
Perhaps you were asleep?

To be fair, Drew Mitchell is one of the most exciting players out there. I would have him in a heartbeat on the wing over AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to the centres for either A Finger or McCabe for me).

This isn't planetrugby, inserting "to be fair" before your point does not give it sudden credibility. Mitchell's exciting, but there's a group of players out there that just won the Tri Nations and he has been rehabbing from a serious injury.

We shouldn't be desperate to make changes to insert the stars from teams that didn't win shit when we have a team that just did.

 

[chasmac]

This isn't planetrugby, inserting "to be fair" before your point does not give it sudden credibility. Mitchell's exciting, but there's a group of players out there that just won the Tri Nations and he has been rehabbing from a serious injury.

We shouldn't be desperate to make changes to insert the stars from teams that didn't win shit when we have a team that just did.

It wasn't the wingers that won the game last night.

 

[H...]

It wasn't the wingers that won the game last night.

The team won the game. That's a fact. Suggesting that things would have been as good or better with Mitchell on the field is a counterfactual conditional argument.

 

[Groucho]

It is understandable that you missed it, because it was entirely forgettable, but.....

Beale grubbers at 16:56 after a superb charge by samo and good hit-up by Horwill. There were ample and able players around him (Pocock and Ioane) on a short blind to really do some damage. It goes all of 2 metres and he over runs it as the all blacks pick it up and counter.

[video]http://youtu.be/cCRCZJUrtX4#t=5m49s[/video]

Yep I missed that. Sorry vidiot.

 

[Groucho]

Is there all that much between A-Cooper and O'Connor? They are much of a muchness, IMO. Very good with the sideline, keeping the ball in play, making hard meters with footwork and leg drive.

It's academic anyway, as Drew Mitchell will take that wing spot surely.

The big difference is that O'Connor very ably sets up his supports, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) never does. Admittedly that is less crucial for a winger, but when they are in a roving role it is crucial.

 

[Groucho]

The team won the game. That's a fact. Suggesting that things would have been as good or better with Mitchell on the field is a counterfactual conditional argument.

What an odd thing to say. By that argument, any postulate is 'counterfactual' and 'conditional'. We may as well go home in that case, and leave Rugby Heaven to report the 'facts'.

 

[Rebel rouser]

Without reading the entire thread, I hope this incident has set JOC (James O'Connor) right. There was a risk that he was going to be considered 'too crucial' to miss a game and that would have blown his ego further out of proportion.

Hopefully, this has shown him that he's got to fight for his spot like everyone else and being a d***head will only hamper his career. He should be kicking himself that he's missing out on the chance to hold aloft the tri-nations trophy as a member of the winning team. With Cipriani in the Rebels already, having two highly talented, but bloody stupid players would have been dangerous.

 

[Nusadan]

Concur with the statement above, let's hope JOC (James O'Connor) also see positives though from this situation and make himself work harder at himself for the rest of his playing career and more importantly the rest of his life to his great benefit (and to the Wallabies for that matter).

Quite often people like JOC (James O'Connor) got away with things early on in the life and take on the attitude she'll be right which doesn't work that way in reality! So this will be seen as a big favour to JOC (James O'Connor) should he takes it the right way, so watch this space...

 

[H...]

What an odd thing to say. By that argument, any postulate is 'counterfactual' and 'conditional'. We may as well go home in that case, and leave Rugby Heaven to report the 'facts'.

No, because things currently aren't broken, so why rush to fix them with a player coming back from a serious injury?

There is a large difference between looking at facts and proposing changes for the future and looking at facts and claiming to know what would have happened in the past if X were true. The former is how you make changes and the latter is an utter waste of time.

The wallabies won the 3N without Drew Mitchell, something they were never able to do with him (I'm not suggesting there's causation there). I therefore think we should stick with the same side for the time being.

People are describing Mitchell like he's some sort of Campese/Lomu hybrid that we absolutely can't do without.

 

[Groucho]

No, because things currently aren't broken, so why rush to fix them with a player coming back from a serious injury?

There is a large difference between looking at facts and proposing changes for the future and looking at facts and claiming to know what would have happened in the past if X were true. The former is how you make changes and the latter is an utter waste of time.

The wallabies won the 3N without Drew Mitchell, something they were never able to do with him (I'm not suggesting there's causation there). I therefore think we should stick with the same side for the time being.

No one has said that or anything like it. You've merely replaced your pseudo-epistemological humbug with hyperbole in order to try to make it fly better. :lmao: