What to do, 5m out, against a set defense

[Newb]

Just give it to Cliffy or TPN

with quade facing up. or facing backwards. or curled up like a turtle.

 

[Bullrush]

I don't know that the pick and drive 5m out is necessarily set-up to score from as opposed to just trying to pull defenders in to create more space outside.

Of course if you do score then that's great but I'd say very few forwards take that pick and go with the expectation of really scoring.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I wouldn't exchange Sydney for any other city but I can't help feeling I was meant to be born in any other rugby playing country than my own.

Bruce, I'm intrigued by this. Which country do you feel would better represent your views on how rugby should be played? Just for shits and giggles, like...

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I don't know that the pick and drive 5m out is necessarily set-up to score from as opposed to just trying to pull defenders in to create more space outside.

Of course if you do score then that's great but I'd say very few forwards take that pick and go with the expectation of really scoring.

That's right I think. At some point you have to try something else though. I generally get the feeling that after about four or five phases bashing it up that close to the line that there are diminishing marginal returns from doing it any more. I reckon that every consecutive phases actually reduces the chance of scoring. Or maybe I'm a little jaundiced from seeing the Force doing it so much

 

[Ruggo]

I don't mind the trying to burrow over tactic but sides are very predictable in that they go the same way each time. I becomes very easy to defend.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I think refs should be more vigilant in making teams use ball even though the scrum has collapsed. A few resets is fine, but seeing the ball make it to the feet of the number eight, with the half ready to scoop it out before being halted by the ref blowing up for a resets is very frustrating for viewers.

The obvious difficulty with that, TK, is that some unscrupulous packs could deliberately take the scrum down so that their half back has totally unpressured ball.

 

[DPK]

The obvious difficulty with that, TK, is that some unscrupulous packs could deliberately take the scrum down so that their half back has totally unpressured ball.

I agree, and but ideally, the referees should be able to determine when the one side has forced the collapse rather than the scrum collapsing accidently.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Bruce, I'm intrigued by this. Which country do you feel would better represent your views on how rugby should be played? Just for shits and giggles, like...

for me, I'd say durban. Maybe not for the way they play rugby, but at least for the quality of the cheerleaders.

 

[Gagger]

The Gregan flick pass to Finegan on the angled run worked pretty well if I remember. Needs good player combo

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

for me, I'd say durban. Maybe not for the way they play rugby, but at least for the quality of the cheerleaders.

Or Pretoria. Those Bulls cheerleaders are smokin....

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruce, I'm intrigued by this. Which country do you feel would better represent your views on how rugby should be played? Just for shits and giggles, like...

My comment, TBH, was based on the fact that I would happily watch scrums, mauls and hand-to-hand combat on the goal line for the whole 80 minutes. I sense that most of my countrymen do not share my preference.

I note that in answer to your question as to "which country ... would better represent your views", rugbysmartarse, who obviously didn't do geography at school, suggested Durban. Then you yourself, not to be outdone, proposed Pretoria. Standards have obviously slipped since they stopped teachers flogging kids with the cane.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

You didn't answer my question Bruce

 

[cyclopath]

Chip kick to the corner a la Cips. I can't understand why you would do anything else?

 

[Bruce Ross]

You didn't answer my question Bruce

My impression is that rugby followers in most other countries are much more appreciative of tight forward play than Australians are. So my answer would be most other rugby playing countries but just don't ask me to live there.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

My comment, TBH, was based on the fact that I would happily watch scrums, mauls and hand-to-hand combat on the goal line for the whole 80 minutes. I sense that most of my countrymen do not share my preference.

I note that in answer to your question as to "which country ... would better represent your views", rugbysmartarse, who obviously didn't do geography at school, suggested Durban. Then you yourself, not to be outdone, proposed Pretoria. Standards have obviously slipped since they stopped teachers flogging kids with the cane.

I did quite well at Geography, Bruce. I also studied psycology and english literature, giving me the skill to comprehend the unspoken elements of the question, namely which Rugby province, more sepcifically than which country. This is evidenced by TBH himself also responding with a province.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I like that: "the unspoken elements of the question".

Don't mind me, rsa. I like to indulge myself.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

My impression is that rugby followers in most other countries are much more appreciative of tight forward play than Australians are. So my answer would be most other rugby playing countries but just don't ask me to live there.

Perhaps so, but that isn't to say that we Aussies don't appreciate tight forward play at all. If that were the case, we wouldn't bang on about scrums as much as we do, even if only to berate our current players and coaches on the matter.

 

[Gnostic]

It is an oft repeated fallacy, often from north of the equator, that Australians do not appreciate forward play especially scrums. What isn't appreciated is the constant one out rubbish that we are seeing too regularly. What I dislike in Australian forward play is the lack of strength and the lack of dynamism so many of our top forwards play with.

So much emphasis is placed on "work rate" with little or no examination of what that "work rate" actually achieves.

I love Rugby for the tight forward play, the test of strength and guile. How is any of that see in the one up League style "hit ups"? Where is the team work of the scrum and the maul? The interplay between the backrowers breaking from the scrum?

It is an interesting lesson in history to see how we got to the point we are today, starting with the Macqueen constant recycle game which called for a sort of homogeny in the forwards and backs and a blurring of the roles in many ways. That morphed into the Eddie Jones League style game all based around speed to the breakdown. The set pieces were largely ignored and if it wasn't for two or three world class locks the shambolic state of the scrum would have been repeated at the Lineout. Along comes Connolly and tries to turn around the set pieces but relied too much on the same old players and tried to change what they had been playing (many of them their whole professional careers) hence they got smashed at the set piece and out muscled at the breakdown as speed gave way before strength. Now we have Deans and there have indeed been some changes, but they focus more around a generational change with players like TPN & Pocock. The issues for Deans is that the set piece of the scrum is still being compromised by selection of players out of position Sharpe, and non-scrummaging props (Ma'afu, Daley and Alexander) and secondly the focus of "work rate" as I previously stated.

I love forward play, I do not like stodgy one out pick and drives again and again with no imagination and not impact, and then get told that I just do not appreciate "forward play".

 

[Hawko]

I felt for the ref actually. If the Chiefs are intent on playing silly buggers with the scrum, what is he supposed to do?

Blow a penalty, you say. OK, and then the Tahs call another scrum and the mad cycle continues.

It wasn't a mad cycle. It was one scrum totally dominant over another. The only problems with the ref was the fact that he wanted to lecture everyone endlessly and he was far too slow to give the card and the penalty try. Conditions for giving it were right two scrums previously.

Like Bruce, I thought it was the highlight of the game. When was the last time that an Australian scrum totally dominated its opponent? I think it was probably against Wales on the grand slam tour, though I may have missed one or two in between.

 

[Hawko]

I did quite well at Geography, Bruce. I also studied psycology and english literature, giving me the skill to comprehend the unspoken elements of the question, namely which Rugby province, more sepcifically than which country. This is evidenced by TBH himself also responding with a province.

Great education, but you obviously gave spelling a miss.