What Quade should have been doing

[Newter]

Fucked if I know. There's a lot of Quade hatred going around, mainly for one risky pass in his in-goal late in the game. Some have said he looked nervous from the start.

From what I saw Quade managed his role very well throughout the 80 minutes. His main tactic was the wide ball off set piece, and in that he always gave his outside runners a chance. The real blame for our lack of penetration should fall on those runners, particularly Ashley-Cooper and O'Connor, who kept running into the gibbon-like long arms of Conrad Smith.

What should he have done? Run it more? He did run it at least once, and you can't see much but I wonder what Richie was "doing" with him here. The footage is at 12:50.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8kvN82xUZ8

I happen to think that if James O'Connor kicked those fairly regulation goals in the first 40, we would have built on the good early work that generated those penalty chances. We were going forward through the backs early on. Quade was doing his job.

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

Cooper is not to blame for the loss, but he had a poor night.

 

[barbarian]

He threw a poor pass on counter which was intercepted. He kicked a poor cross-kick off a solid 5m scrum, completely wasting a golden opportunity. He kicked numerous poor up-and-unders which put pressure back on the Wallabies. He threw numerous poor passes behind his outside men. He too often looked for the miracle ball when it was not on, and neglected the safe options AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and McCabe who barely saw the ball.

He had a bad game and should have done better.

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

He threw a poor pass on counter which was intercepted. He kicked a poor cross-kick off a solid 5m scrum, completely wasting a golden opportunity. He kicked numerous poor up-and-unders which put pressure back on the Wallabies. He threw numerous poor passes behind his outside men. He too often looked for the miracle ball when it was not on, and neglected the safe options AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and McCabe who barely saw the ball.

He had a bad game and should have done better.

This is what annoys me the most. Both Cooper and Genia have a habit of doing it. Against the ABs kick the ball out!!!!!!

 

[Bullrush]

Fucked if I know. There's a lot of Quade hatred going around, mainly for one risky pass in his in-goal late in the game. Some have said he looked nervous from the start.

From what I saw Quade managed his role very well throughout the 80 minutes. His main tactic was the wide ball off set piece, and in that he always gave his outside runners a chance. The real blame for our lack of penetration should fall on those runners, particularly Ashley-Cooper and O'Connor, who kept running into the gibbon-like long arms of Conrad Smith.

What should he have done? Run it more? He did run it at least once, and you can't see much but I wonder what Richie was "doing" with him here. The footage is at 12:50.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8kvN82xUZ8

I happen to think that if James O'Connor kicked those fairly regulation goals in the first 40, we would have built on the good early work that generated those penalty chances. We were going forward through the backs early on. Quade was doing his job.

As an AB fan I can honestly say that I hope Quade plays as well again in Brisbane.

 

[waratahjesus]

there isnt Quade hatred, i dont think anyone is calling for him to be dropped but he showed what can go wrong if he is put under pressure last night and while he didnt have great space he did have good ball several times and wasted it.

i posted in the other thread about doing solid stuff before going wide, its a dirty strategy these days, but having four or five hit ups and working on the advantage line recycling possession before kicking into a corner can get a team on the front foot, New zealand where actually making the aussies go wide last night, they were using the sideline as an extra defender and quade kept going there, it wasnt working but it kept happening. Its part coaching but it also falls on Quades feet to unlock the game, if he is playing whats in front of him he should of changed tacks.

The inside balls where stupid stuff though, it seems his long passing game means people arnt running off his shoulder at all at times, there is nothing wrong with small pop passes ont he inside, he shouldnt have to turn himself inside out to throw a 10%er that several times where lucky not to be called forward.

even last week i was saying Barnes was a 22 player not a gauranteed starter but that changed for me last night, Quade needed to step back from running the team for 5 minutes and compose himself, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) are unable to be this calming influence as they suffer from the score off every play mentality that there youth has infected them with. A steady hand and nice calm sure ball would have provided even more ball for australia last night and would have allowed the attack to attack when the attack was on.

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

there isnt Quade hatred, i dont think anyone is calling for him to be dropped but he showed what can go wrong if he is put under pressure last night and while he didnt have great space he did have good ball several times and wasted it.

i posted in the other thread about doing solid stuff before going wide, its a dirty strategy these days, but having four or five hit ups and working on the advantage line recycling possession before kicking into a corner can get a team on the front foot, New zealand where actually making the aussies go wide last night, they were using the sideline as an extra defender and quade kept going there, it wasnt working but it kept happening. Its part coaching but it also falls on Quades feet to unlock the game, if he is playing whats in front of him he should of changed tacks.

The inside balls where stupid stuff though, it seems his long passing game means people arnt running off his shoulder at all at times, there is nothing wrong with small pop passes ont he inside, he shouldnt have to turn himself inside out to throw a 10%er that several times where lucky not to be called forward.

even last week i was saying Barnes was a 22 player not a gauranteed starter but that changed for me last night, Quade needed to step back from running the team for 5 minutes and compose himself, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) are unable to be this calming influence as they suffer from the score off every play mentality that there youth has infected them with. A steady hand and nice calm sure ball would have provided even more ball for australia last night and would have allowed the attack to attack when the attack was on.

The things is he was more patient when playing for the Reds this year. The game against the Stormers in SA being a prime example.

 

[waratahjesus]

there where a few games he had some maturity issues, both games against nsw and against the force early on he went off the boil a bit, he lost it (i may get this wrong) against the crusaders a little bit but found his way back. He is maturing with every year no doubt, a couple of years ago you would have laughed to have him in your side. we need him for what he offers, but when he starts to get a bit wobbly, who is telling him to drop back for five and have a rest.

great players like Dan Carter have an ability after a bad kick to shake it off, i feel Quade still plays a bit on confidence and it takes him a while to get his groove back. Its a little thing but i think the whole aussie team is kind of feeding off him alot so when the ball doesnt stick, it affects them alot.

 

[DPK]

Yep, totally agree WJ. The backline is based on confidence.

 

[Newter]

there isnt Quade hatred, i dont think anyone is calling for him to be dropped but he showed what can go wrong if he is put under pressure last night and while he didnt have great space he did have good ball several times and wasted it.

i posted in the other thread about doing solid stuff before going wide, its a dirty strategy these days, but having four or five hit ups and working on the advantage line recycling possession before kicking into a corner can get a team on the front foot, New zealand where actually making the aussies go wide last night, they were using the sideline as an extra defender and quade kept going there, it wasnt working but it kept happening. Its part coaching but it also falls on Quades feet to unlock the game, if he is playing whats in front of him he should of changed tacks.

The inside balls where stupid stuff though, it seems his long passing game means people arnt running off his shoulder at all at times, there is nothing wrong with small pop passes ont he inside, he shouldnt have to turn himself inside out to throw a 10%er that several times where lucky not to be called forward.

even last week i was saying Barnes was a 22 player not a gauranteed starter but that changed for me last night, Quade needed to step back from running the team for 5 minutes and compose himself, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) are unable to be this calming influence as they suffer from the score off every play mentality that there youth has infected them with. A steady hand and nice calm sure ball would have provided even more ball for australia last night and would have allowed the attack to attack when the attack was on.

But were we getting bundled into touch? When it did go out it was often a Wallaby lineout as the ball came off an AB defender. At other times we stretched them right to the sideline and kept the ball in play, opening up the whole cross field and thinning out their defensive line.

Maybe Quade could have organised more runners off his shoulder as you say. But how much of this is his fault, and how much the fault of his support players? Or the backline coaches....

 

[waratahjesus]

Quade is running the backline, as far as im concerned a 10 should be in charge so some level of fault should be levelled at him for how it is run. (as well as the coaching patterns and players if quade did try to reorganise but they didnt)

the all blacks where more than happy for them to go wide, the fact the wallabys threw the ball into them doesnt stop the fact that those wide balls wernt making breaks or causing problems, the only break came from Beale running a good line and it was in closer than the majority of work done last night.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

QC (Quade Cooper)'s big failing yesterday was his decision making under pressure. He threw some passes and made some kicks that put the rest of his in difficult positions. In a one off performance I can live with that, because he's been fantastic this year overall. But he'll need a cooler head in the coming weeks, because you can bet that every other team will be targetting him.

 

[FrankLind]

The things is he was more patient when playing for the Reds this year. The game against the Stormers in SA being a prime example.

It's easier to be patient in Super 15 though isn't it.

QC (Quade Cooper) is very dangerous with those long flat passes and shimmies. As an AB supporter, I get worried every time he gets the ball.

Given space and time, he cuts teams up. The problem is getting the space and time in the first place.

The other problem, perhaps, is one of temperament. I feel he might be a bit suspect mentally. When I see him play well in a beaten team, I will rate more more highly.

 

[TOCC]

Quade is running the backline, as far as im concerned a 10 should be in charge so some level of fault should be levelled at him for how it is run. (as well as the coaching patterns and players if quade did try to reorganise but they didnt)

the all blacks where more than happy for them to go wide, the fact the wallabys threw the ball into them doesnt stop the fact that those wide balls wernt making breaks or causing problems, the only break came from Beale running a good line and it was in closer than the majority of work done last night.

youve highlighted the issue right there..

As ive pointed out in the other threads the All Blacks defence was focussing on the backline, the loose forwards were fanning out from the rucks and they were leaving only minimal number in close. Its why when the Wallabies sucked in one or two defenders from pick-an-go's they were making easy meters, its also why KB (Kurtley Beale) was able to exploit a gap in close to the ruck.

The Wallabies forwards needed to suck in more defenders before going wide, every time the ball went wide the Wallabies were either outnumbered or at minimum facing a 1:1 defensive ratio.

In general play, the fowards didnt lay the platform for the backs to attack off.

 

[DPK]

His kicks at goal were perfect.

 

[Newter]

Quade is running the backline, as far as im concerned a 10 should be in charge so some level of fault should be levelled at him for how it is run. (as well as the coaching patterns and players if quade did try to reorganise but they didnt)

the all blacks where more than happy for them to go wide, the fact the wallabys threw the ball into them doesnt stop the fact that those wide balls wernt making breaks or causing problems, the only break came from Beale running a good line and it was in closer than the majority of work done last night.

Not true, although my first impression of the game was the same. But looking back, we were going forward phase by phase. And we got a few linebreaks. James O'Connor made a sweet one in the red zone that nearly turned into a try.

I think there is nothing really much wrong with our attack. Our lead-up work is first class. We had a shiteload of chances to score. The thing that got in the way was bad goal kicking, some excellent dominant tackling by Kaino on his line, and a bit of bad luck.

Some of Quade's attacking kicks in the first half were very dangerous, and will quite often lead to tries.

 

[Newter]

youve highlighted the issue right there..

As ive pointed out in the other threads the All Blacks defence was focussing on the backline, the loose forwards were fanning out from the rucks and they were leaving only minimal number in close. Its why when the Wallabies sucked in one or two defenders from pick-an-go's they were making easy meters, its also why KB (Kurtley Beale) was able to exploit a gap in close to the ruck.

The Wallabies forwards needed to suck in more defenders before going wide, every time the ball went wide the Wallabies were either outnumbered or at minimum facing a 1:1 defensive ratio.

In general play, the fowards didnt lay the platform for the backs to attack off.

Absolute bullshit. Our phase play was excellent. And this was in large part down to the huge effort and intensity of the Wallabies forwards. Horwill and Kepu were immense, in particular.

Getting stopped by a dominant tackle is one thing, but you can't criticise our forwards for not clearing out the ruck in this Test. They were outstanding.

 

[Newter]

He threw a poor pass on counter which was intercepted. He kicked a poor cross-kick off a solid 5m scrum, completely wasting a golden opportunity. He kicked numerous poor up-and-unders which put pressure back on the Wallabies. He threw numerous poor passes behind his outside men. He too often looked for the miracle ball when it was not on, and neglected the safe options AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and McCabe who barely saw the ball.

He had a bad game and should have done better.

Went back and looked at the tape, and I saw him do the following things:
- inside ball to Kepu, clean break
- long ball to O'Connor, clean break
- a shite load of composed, level-headed decisions to pass it wide early to where the space was rather than try something "tricky"
- a sweet grubber kick to the corner that found touch, 5 meter lineout from AB line
- flat ball to Kepu, half break
- an attacking kick to the other corner for a flying Kurtley Beale, only just gathered up by Sivivatu.
- an attacking kick from a scrum, slightly too long for Digby to get to but clearly the right decision given the AB wingers were up

 

[TOCC]

Absolute bullshit. Our phase play was excellent. And this was in large part down to the huge effort and intensity of the Wallabies forwards. Horwill and Kepu were immense, in particular.

Getting stopped by a dominant tackle is one thing, but you can't criticise our forwards for not clearing out the ruck in this Test. They were outstanding.

wow, settle down mate.. read my comments again..

I never criticised the clearing out at the rucks, if anything i gave reason as to why the Wallabies went so well at it, it was because the AB's were deliberately committing minimal numbers to the ruck so they could fan out and fill the defensive line.

When people talk about the forwards laying a good platform for the back to attack off, they aren't just talking about clearing out at a ruck, they are talking about sucking in defenders and ensuring that the backline either has a numerical or positional advantage over the opposition backline. This wasnt happening on the weekend, the Wallabies should have identified that blokes like Horwill and especially Moore were making easy meters within the ruck channel and kept pushing it.

 

[waratahjesus]

Newter - its great that those things payed off, but you ignore how much ball was dropped and the bad things. as ive said, im not calling for him to be dropped but he didnt have a good game last night.

the wide balls as has been said where a false economy, the all blacks where forcing the wallabies wide, time and time again we went there and time and time again it went into touch, they patted each other on the back and thought they were great, they were being outplayed and out coached.