Western Force 2011

[The_Brown_Hornet]

farva

I forgot Battye but lets not fly that kite until we see something from him as a senior player. No, McCalman won't be your lineout general but I was just answering a question about how all four Force backrowers in the Wallabies could fit into a S15 team.

Newb

Disagree with your contention that Hodgson isn't on the radar. He was picked on the 2009 EOYT and in every team on the bench this year up until the time of his groin injury. Why he hasn't been utilised properly is a separate issue.

He made everybody sit up after his performance against the Tahs in a test-like atmosphere earlier in the year and it was as the 7 when Pocock was out injured. I think that Deans, like myself, considers him to be the logical short term back up for Pocock on the open side and is the reason why Waugh has not been included in any squad.

In hindsight it's ironic: the Tahs wouldn't have won that game without Waugh but Hodgson was the MOTM - and more importantly showed all of us, including Deans, what a top 7 he was. I had no clue until then as I thought he was just a big engine all-rounder backrower.

Dead right Lee. Up until this season I think everyone thought he was an honest toiler but no more than that (I would have been one of them). But his performances this year in a seriously undermanned pack were nothing short of stellar. Sharpie too.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

lets not forget that Brown is very effective at S14 level, more so then anything McCalman is yet to display, to suggest McCalman will beat out Brown is premature..

In fact, if anyone should be nervous, it should be Hodgson, IMO a backline of Pocock-Brown-McCalman is a better combination, provides better balance.

Brown has been excellent for the Force for a couple of seasons now and it's what got him picked for the test team. Squeezing four into three is going to be difficult for Graham I think.

 

[Gnostic]

It would be a big call to drop Hodgeson. When Pocock and Brown were out Hodgeson and Sharpe carried the whole team. They limited the damage when Harris was at 10. Hodgeson deserves his place in front of Brown IMO.

 

[dobduff11]

they will play McCalman at second row to accomadate all four of them, 4 McCalman 5 Sharpie 6 Hodgo 7 Pocock 8 Sugar Buzz

If brown doesn't pull his weight then mccalman to 8 and hockings to 4

IF Graham plays JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing this year i'm going to be seriously pissed

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I think you will find they have Dunning and Fairbrother (Both 30+) coming off contract next year and the Reds have had Daley and Slipper become Wallabies, who are both only 21 so it would suggest they have sold him the opportunity - Its a long way from his family so it will be interesting to see if he is ready and whether it lasts

Fairbrother is 28 and could have 5 good years although your point is still valid.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It would be a big call to drop Hodgeson. When Pocock and Brown were out Hodgeson and Sharpe carried the whole team. They limited the damage when Harris was at 10. Hodgeson deserves his place in front of Brown IMO.

Totally agree Gnostic.

 

[Newb]

LG - let's start by saying that i think hodgo is great and that the work he did for the force isn't appreciated enough. and i'd have played him by now. i was just saying that i don't think deans acknowledges that by parking him on the bench all game. he's for sure the backup 7 when healthy but i'm certain george smith would be there if he hadn't moved on, regardless of hodgo's super 14 form. i think deans has him there cuz he doesn't want to go to waugh, colby Fainga'a, hooper, or gill yet and not much else. but i can see the young ones being there eventually. no slight indended to hogdo.

BR - also no slight to mccalman intended. and when i said spot, i meant a starting spot at 6 or 8 which seem to be his preferred positions. until someone gets injured or moves on i think he'll be on the bench or shuffled to lock. but perhaps he's well and truly surpassed dick brown and will shove him down.

 

[Tank]

Thanks all for the comments - is going to be interesting for Graham to work that one out (obviously if all fit).

In terms of McCalman playing lock, I don't think anyone has yet mentioned Sam Wykes (although I think Lee said at one stage that he eventually saw Wykes as a tall 6) - wouldn't the Force be looking to get one of Hockings or Wykes (or possibly even Battye but maybe not quite yet) to man up and partner Sharpe next year with the other to takeover from Sharpe year after?

 

[farva]

Thanks all for the comments - is going to be interesting for Graham to work that one out (obviously if all fit).

In terms of McCalman playing lock, I don't think anyone has yet mentioned Sam Wykes (although I think Lee said at one stage that he eventually saw Wykes as a tall 6) - wouldn't the Force be looking to get one of Hockings or Wykes (or possibly even Battye but maybe not quite yet) to man up and partner Sharpe next year with the other to takeover from Sharpe year after?

They need to do some sort of forward planning regarding Sharpe. He is the lineout general, and McCalman is not the long term lock option. I also think of Wykes more as a tall 6 than a lock (he played some good rugby at 8 this year when Dick Brown and Pocock were both out) so I think the best option is to get Hocking playing well at 4, and learning the lineout role from Sharpe. Wykes can slip in as the other lock if Battye isnt up to standard by them when Sharpe goes.
But that means there is the problem of 4 backrowers fitting into 3 spots.

 

[Lee Grant]

I think Lee said at one stage that he eventually saw Wykes as a tall 6

Yeah I never thought that Sam was going to be an effective pro lock. Even when he and McDuling formed a well balanced 2nd row for NSW and Oz Schools 3 years ago I had doubts if he was going to be a robust enough player to be a regular S14 starter, or have a strong enough build to be robust. It looked then that his niche was going to be as an athletic lineout 6, but was more likely to be a bench player to cover lock and 6.

I know he's started in the 2nd row for the Force - and in Super rugby you can get away with starting an athletic lock especially against lumbering packs who should be run around the park - but he he needs to be balanced with a power TH lock. I don't know who is going to be the successor to Sharpe for the Wallabies let alone the Force, not that I would categorise him as a power lock to be honest, but the westerners will have to source a couple of hardnose hopefuls.

Nobody knows what Battye's impact will be as a senior player let alone as a professional player, and Hockings has not stepped up enough IMO. I'd look at somebody like Tom Alexander from Eastwood (brother of Ben). The 23 y.o. is only 195cms and who knows what his reach is? He's 113 kgs, but that is down from 120kgs at the start of the year so you'd think he could put it back on with muscle in a pro environment.

More importantly: he has a big engine and grunts with it; but you would expect that with the Alexander DNA.

 

[topo]

Yeah I never thought that Sam was going to be an effective pro lock. Even when he and McDuling formed a well balanced 2nd row for NSW and Oz Schools 3 years ago I had doubts if he was going to be a robust enough player to be a regular S14 starter, or have a strong enough build to be robust. It looked then that his niche was going to be as an athletic lineout 6, but was more likely to be a bench player to cover lock and 6.

Lee, I feel like I am putting my head on the block here because you are always right about these things. But I don't think Wykes and McDuling played together in NSW and Oz schools. Sam Wykes left school in 2005 and McDuling left in 2007.
I've seen Sam play since he was in the Parramatta sides at U14 level and he's always impressed me. I agree, though, that his style is far more suited to 6 than 8 or lock.

 

[Lee Grant]

Crikey you're right topo. I got him mixed up with Sivetini Mafi - same haircut and similar build.

I wish I could say that it's the 1st time I've mixed them up but it's not - and I routinely type out Toulon instead of Toulouse. McCabe instead of McCutcheon or vice versa is another one.

The funny thing is that I even checked my old programme to see if I got the year right.

 

[disco]

they will play McCalman at second row to accomadate all four of them, 4 McCalman 5 Sharpie 6 Hodgo 7 Pocock 8 Sugar Buzz

If brown doesn't pull his weight then mccalman to 8 and hockings to 4

IF Graham plays JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing this year i'm going to be seriously pissed

I'd play 4. Tom Hockings 5.Nathan Sharpe 6.Hodgson 7.Pocock 8.McCalman.

Play Brown off the bench & start Hockings, Hockings is genuine lock & has shown that he is a very good player who back in 2008 looked like test material even out playing Sharpe.

Don't know why Mitchell went cold on Hockings but he's never really been given enough gametime to produce his form of 2008 since being injured.

 

[DPK]

Lee, what's the news on Greg Peterson? Has he been sewn up anywhere?

 

[Lee Grant]

Greg got other offers but decided to accept another Tahs pro Acadamy gig. He is lucky in that he is being well mentored by his connections - and that's all I can say.

 

[farva]

Seems the Force are in a bit of a conundrum next year. 4 flankers, 3 spots.
I dont want McCalman to go to 4, I think he needs to develop at 8. I also want a genuine lock (Tom Hocking hurry up and step up) to develop alongside Sharpe for when Sharpe goes.
So we have Pocock, Brown, McCalman and Hodgson all gunning for the 3 spots. For me, I think Brown or Hodgson to the bench. They both cover 6/7/8. Its going to be unfortunate having an international quality back rower sitting on the bench for a provincial team, but that is what is going to happen.
I also dont think we will hang on to the benched player.

Although I am sure that injury will mean that all 4 get a run during the season.

 

[Lee Grant]

In the happy circumstance of no injuries, there are enough games in 2011 whereby all 4 backrowers can be rotated. Graham should be up front and tell them that every game is a selection trial for the games at the money end of the season, say the last third of the pool games

Hopefully McCalman will get more time than Brown at 8. A stint every now and then at 6 will do him no harm either.

I'd see a case whereby the Force may want to run a few lumbering packs off their feet and play McCalman at lock. In that case Brown is a good lineout option for a short arse - at least he was in 2009.

Am not sold on Hockings. One of their main recruitment imperatives is to get a top TH lock, and not a youngster; but we have discussed this before.

 

[RugbyReg]

well Pat O'Connor has been going ok in the ITM cup. They let him go.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I don't want to see McCalman play lock if we can avoid it. He's proven himself to be up to the job at 6/8 and is really coming into his own there. The four boys are just going to have to scrap it out, but Lee's point about rotation is a good one. It's really a fantastic situation to be in. I think our back row is one of the best in the comp and if they stay together they'll worry a lot of other teams next year.

 

[Lance Free]

Western Force 2011 Super 15 Draw attached.