Western Force 2010

[Blue]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

Not a bad signing for the Marquee spot. Petoors is no Gits but if the packs holds up like they did this year and give hime space he does all the basics very well.

It's when he has to backpedal that his brain seems to desert him.

A Boertjie playing for an Aussie S14 side. My, how the world is changing.

 

[Biffo]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

A Boertjie playing for an Aussie S14 side. My, how the world is changing.

It gets better every day.

The Force will have a very good pack next year, so The Boxer should get games run to suit his running the backline.

 

[Cutter]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

News on TSF is that Gareth Hardy has signed for Leeds. Not surprising. It was actually disappointing he didnt kick on more.

 

[Pfitzy]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

News on TSF is that Gareth Hardy has signed for Leeds. Not surprising.

Yes it is - even a club in Leeds' position should be able to find a better prop than that.

 

[Spook]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

News on TSF is that Gareth Hardy has signed for Leeds. Not surprising.

Yes it is - even a club in Leeds' position should be able to find a better prop than that.

You blokes use to talk him up when he was at the Tahs :-\

 

[Pfitzy]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

Not as a prop - his skills with the ball can't be discounted but he was always a tick on the small side and wasn't technically good enough to make up for it ala Robinson

 

[Spook]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

Not as a prop - his skills with the ball can't be discounted but he was always a tick on the small side and wasn't technically good enough to make up for it ala Robinson

Bah...see Josh Holmes comment.

 

[Pfitzy]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

Good club players - yet to take the step up IMHO

 

[waratahjesus]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

this import system has to stop doesnt it. surely the ARU can step in and spread some talent so we can have an aussie playing ten at the force. as if having ben castle there for a year instead of an aussie front rower wasnt enough!

and braid at the reds when beau hasnt got a contract, its so stupid, i hope they address it soon!

 

[fatprop]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

News on TSF is that Gareth Hardy has signed for Leeds. Not surprising.

Yes it is - even a club in Leeds' position should be able to find a better prop than that.

You blokes use to talk him up when he was at the Tahs :-\

I don't think Hardy started a game for the Tahs.

 

[farva]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

this import system has to stop doesnt it. surely the ARU can step in and spread some talent so we can have an aussie playing ten at the force. as if having ben castle there for a year instead of an aussie front rower wasnt enough!

and braid at the reds when beau hasnt got a contract, its so stupid, i hope they address it soon!

The only issue is actually finding a 10 in Australia that is available to play next year. The Force looked and approached several players, but none were interested. Lealiifano, Giteau and To'omua are both signed with the Brumbies and are not going. Halangahu and Beale are the same with the Tahs. Barnes is available but odds are he will stay with the Reds. Lucas is signed at the Reds. Force need a Super 14 quality flyhalf as their first choice 10, and there arent that many around.

And Castle was one of the big reasons for Cowen's improvement this year. We dont have many experienced tightheads in the country to play up front with Cowen so that was valuable.
And is Beau Robinson actually that good if no-one wants him?

 

[waratahjesus]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

beau is the s@#t, it seems such a shame that he isnt signed for next year.
another year or so and i believe it may have been a matty burke call to send waugh to pasture for beau.

i dont but they not enough to go round theory when it comes to recruiting. thats why i said the ARU can handle it better. with 12 becoming the new 10, every team needs two flyhalfs basically so i have no problem with hangers and beale at the tahs or barnes and coops at the reds. the fair thing to do would have been to release one of the brumbies to go west but for some reason this didnt happen. importing pretorious doesnt magically make another aussie flyhalf a contender though.

as with castle didnt make pek, he meant that an aussie didnt get time to become better at tight head.

the theory that you have to play with good players to become better is strange, in some ways its true but in others, if its fact, then why the hell do we have so many specialty coaches around?

 

[louie]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

the fair thing to do would have been to release one of the brumbies to go west but for some reason this didnt happen.

1.every team needs a back up
2.this game isn't about fairness its about who has the best rugby system, ie thats whats wrong with the reds.
3. they had a great 1 but fucked that up

also with salvi going brumbies needs a back up 7. don't be surprised beau comes south.

 

[waratahjesus]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

im not naive in teh fact that the teams want the players, but for the bettermeant of australian rugby, it might be nice if we try to implement a draft or have exercise options in contract to allow for the spread of talent. im a hardened tahs supporter, but even i know having the four best props in the country is a negative to other teams.

its a shame that the brumbies wont realease one player to go west and its a shame that an aussie player will be playing reserves/club or sitting out on any given weekend while a south african player gets game time when south africa already has an extra team than us.

 

[Lee Grant]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

We can't be too precious if a S14 team has deficiencies. Let them be punished by the invisible hand of the market place for long term good.

We would all like the Force to have a back up to Pretorius - perhaps I was the first to mention the consequences of Giteau's departure - but take it back a step and ask why Daruda was not retained. You have to have a succession plan for players; when recruiting this year you have to look at what is going to happen 2 or 3 years from now.

The Force should have anticipated that the escape clause in Giteau's contract may have been exercised, just it should have covered any injury to him in 2010, had he stayed.

The marketplace will punish managers of any business than doesn't plan well, and reward strong managers. Sure there have to be some constraints on a free market, otherwise managers will make decisions based on greed and the world could end up in recession more often than not.

But in the rugby business example, the contracting of players should be a sufficient constraint. This requires players to provide services to rugby organisations for a certain length of time and for a certain remuneration. Contracts give certainty to both employees and employers and both parties have to think carefully about entering into them.

We can't have a system whereby a rugby organisation can be saved by a governing body, such as the ARU, if it doesn't have a tight head prop or a fly half or a whatever. If so, the organisation could be tempted to make a lot of reckless contracting choices, or non-choices, knowing that they will always have the safety net of Big Daddy ARU to look after them.

It can be harsh but there will always be some co-operation - for example: the NSW Academy released Sheehan to go to Queensland during a season a few years back. It will be harsh also if some teams are rocked by a series of injuries in a certain area - but otherwise, let's not shed too many crocodile tears for the Force not having a backup flyhalf.

Let them twist in the wind; they should have planned better.

 

[hatchie]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

Nice GEC analogy Lee. I share your anti-Keynesian sentiments.

I was surprised and disappointed about the news of Daruda. I've long been a fan, and would have expected him to play a bit more for us in 2009. He is only 23.

So, besides a back up flyhalf, another inside back and outside back would be handy. And a hooker (or two!).

 

[Biffo]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

Nice GEC analogy Lee. I share your anti-Keynesian sentiments.

When did Keynes write or say that an outside force should prop up the lame business enterprise? Reference, please.

 

[Cutter]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

We can't be too precious if a S14 team has deficiencies. Let them be punished by the invisible hand of the market place for long term good.

We would all like the Force to have a back up to Pretorius - perhaps I was the first to mention the consequences of Giteau's departure - but take it back a step and ask why Daruda was not retained. You have to have a succession plan for players; when recruiting this year you have to look at what is going to happen 2 or 3 years from now.

The Force should have anticipated that the escape clause in Giteau's contract may have been exercised, just it should have covered any injury to him in 2010, had he stayed.

The marketplace will punish managers of any business than doesn't plan well, and reward strong managers. Sure there have to be some constraints on a free market, otherwise managers will make decisions based on greed and the world could end up in recession more often than not.

But in the rugby business example, the contracting of players should be a sufficient constraint. This requires players to provide services to rugby organisations for a certain length of time and for a certain remuneration. Contracts give certainty to both employees and employers and both parties have to think carefully about entering into them.

We can't have a system whereby a rugby organisation can be saved by a governing body, such as the ARU, if it doesn't have a tight head prop or a fly half or a whatever. If so, the organisation could be tempted to make a lot of reckless contracting choices, or non-choices, knowing that they will always have the safety net of Big Daddy ARU to look after them.

It can be harsh but there will always be some co-operation - for example: the NSW Academy released Sheehan to go to Queensland during a season a few years back. It will be harsh also if some teams are rocked by a series of injuries in a certain area - but otherwise, let's not shed too many crocodile tears for the Force not having a backup flyhalf.

Let them twist in the wind; they should have planned better.

The problem with this theory is that the market is not a perfect tool with which to allocate scarce resources and the invisible hand is sometimes on the end of the arm of a drunken fool. I know you suggest there should be some "regulation" and you give the example of managers being greedy. What is it about their greed that is damaging to the system? How does it damage the system? Why is the stockpiling of talent a lesser evil? Isnt that a type of greed?

Would you support transfer or sign on fees for Aussie players so that a fee is paid to the ARU/province when an Aussie player signs to go overseas?

The main problem I have with a failure to regulate in such circumstances is that incompetence gets you to the bottom and keeps you there. It means you have less money and therefore less opportunity to buy your way out. It means fans and sponsors desert you and that you lose the ability to earn the money to buy your way out. It means you cant attract good players and cant keep good players. Look at the Reds.

If the decision makers are accountable then they wont make reckless decisions regardless of whether there is a safety net.

Don't forget that, but for ARU intervention not so long ago, the Waratahs might be extinct.

 

[Biffo]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

The main problem I have with a failure to regulate in such circumstances is that incompetence gets you to the bottom and keeps you there. It means you have less money and therefore less opportunity to buy your way out. It means fans and sponsors desert you and that you lose the ability to earn the money to buy your way out. It means you cant attract good players and cant keep good players. Look at the Reds.

So, the Reds incompetence got them to the bottom where they can't buy their way out. Could the incompetents who took them to the bottom be given money to make more of the bad decisions which took them down? Far better to (1) replace the management with better, or (2) let them fold and be replaced by the Gold Coat Whatsits or the Melbourne Winter.

 

[Cutter]

Re: Comings and goings at the Force

The market would let them fail and be replaced with something else. However, the new team wouldnt have fans, infrastructure...anything. Better to save the Reds by whatever means necessary and get rid of those in management who are responsible (and still there).