Were the Wallabies burnt out?

[DPK]

Overdone, underdone. It's clear the perfect coach for the Wallabies is Gordon Ramsay.

Love to see he and Vickerman go toe to toe in a argument.

 

[TOCC]

Let's not forget the poor performance against Ireland...
It wasn't just the game vs New Zealand....
Our game against Sth Africa was the exception to form for the tournament.

 

[Bowside]

I was about to post a thread about this WC coming maybe a year too soon for the Wallabies.

I think this is such a cop out. If the RWC was a year later nothing would have gone different except for the fact that we might have lost a few more tests in the meantime.

People seem to think that another year would have fixed certain things, but we had 4 years to fix said problems, why were they not fixed.

 

[XVProps]

If this was going on 20 Years ago I would agree, but with all the support they have I think burnout is another bullshit modern day catchcry. With the recovery techniques, physio's, massage therapists etc. Recovery has never been so dominant for the modern athlete's preperartion.


Sent from my iPod touch.

 

[Blob]

I do think Samo was a shadow of the player he was in the 3nations. Cooper and genia didn't look themselves but I'm not sure if this was from overdoing the conservative play or tiredness.

Horwill possibly, but the rest were more likely underdone. vickerman, tpn, Horne, Mitchell, elsom.

Samo is an athlete not a rugby player. He would have to be one of the technically poorest 8s out there. He's strong and quite fast though.

 

[Dam0]

Samo is an athlete not a rugby player. He would have to be one of the technically poorest 8s out there. He's strong and quite fast though.

Probably get flamed for this post but. . .

I thought Samo was your weakest link. I went back and watched the SF a couple of times again focussing on individual players. When I watched Samo I noticed that his workrate was the worst of the forwards from either team. Even when he went into rucks and mauls he seemed to do so only half-heartedly. He basically lived off the coattails of one great run and a fend-off of an already injured Adam Thompson. I would take a hard-working, less dynamic no. 8 any day of the week.

 

[Dan54]

I have said in another thread I believed Genia and Cooper were perhaps a bit jaded, but have said all year Reds and Wallabies were relying on these 2 players too much, and they needed to be managed. As for Samo, I agree with Dam0, a couple of runs with the ball in hand does not make him a good No 8. I personally rated Macalman as a better palyer.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Probably get flamed for this post but. . .

I thought Samo was your weakest link. I went back and watched the SF a couple of times again focussing on individual players. When I watched Samo I noticed that his workrate was the worst of the forwards from either team. Even when he went into rucks and mauls he seemed to do so only half-heartedly. He basically lived off the coattails of one great run and a fend-off of an already injured Adam Thompson. I would take a hard-working, less dynamic no. 8 any day of the week.

Agree
But we don't require our pensioners to work


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[Reddy!]

If there was burn out, it was evident in Cooper and Genia's uninspiring play compared to Super 15

 

[Loki74]

I don't think we could have done that against SA if we'd been burnt out

We were also going into the tournament with one of the fullest squads we'd had for ages

I agree totally. Game against SA was not burn out. The Cup ia always a battle of attrition. Who can keep their standards reasonably high for the whole tournament wins it. We had an easy draw which would have allowed us to save some energy for the business end. But once we lost to Ireland, we were always going to have to string together 3 tough wins in a row. I certainly think we were a little flat against the ABs but that was our own fault.

 

[wamberal]

Not long ago there was an upper limit on the number of games that elite players could play in a season - I think it was 30?


Deans seems to have thrown that out of the window, he has actively encouraged his squad to play as much, as often, as they can, even in club rugby.


Buggered if I know - but it seems to me that there would be an optimal maximum for every player, depending on age, position, capacity to recover from injury, etc etc.


I do not subscribe to the theory that, because they are professionals, getting paid a lot of money, living and training in "plush" surroundings (where do you live, Grievous, just as a matter of interest?) they should just keep getting up off the floor, minute after minute, week after week, without any kind of ill effects.

We have relatively scarce resources. We should be looking after them, not just exploiting them for short-term gain and assuming that their performance will not be adversely affected by overuse. We seem to be conducting a kind of unscientific experiment in pushing the players to see whether, or rather, when, they will break - because surely every single one of them will have a breaking point. I doubt that playing too many games will actually improve performance.

I would rather see them a bit under-done, going into a tournament like this one, rather than dragging their bums.

Yes, I believe that some burn-out, mental, and/or physical, is inevitable, and I am sure we saw some effects.

 

[Richo]

Let's not forget the poor performance against Ireland...
It wasn't just the game vs New Zealand....
Our game against Sth Africa was the exception to form for the tournament.

And even that performance against SA was only exceptional on one side of the ball.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I thought Samo was your weakest link.

I think he was figured out (by everyone except Habana) - in defence, he plants his feet and leans into the tackle, at which point he becomes a lot easier to step around. When you watch the replays he tackles a fair amount of air this WC. He also started to look tired. But I did like seeing him playing on the wing

That said, people said Ant Finger had a rubbish game when he made very few tackles - but if no-one wants to run at you that's a success story as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hawko]

There is a reason that SA and NZ sent weak squads into Tri Nations games.

Yeah. But Deans has always been a believer in the "play every test till you're broken" theory.

 

[Utility Back]

You'd have to get some honest feedback from the players on something like this. Generally the playing part i think isn't what would burn them out, that's the part they love. Its the endless training and travelling way from family which can really tax them, but Aus is in the same boat as anyone really.

I think Robbies tactic of sending a full strength team into the tri-nations was an attempt at building a winning mentality, sort of a 'winning is a habbit' culture like the crusaders perhaps. Ofcourse doesn't seem like it worked at all, but who knows if it worked to our detriment. As someone else said earlier, resting didn't do the saffers any favours.

IMO, burnout would just be a shithouse excuse.

If NZ win i doubt its because they rested there players against SA, but because they are clearly the best team out there. We clearly weren't.

 

[Hawko]

I have said in another thread I believed Genia and Cooper were perhaps a bit jaded, but have said all year Reds and Wallabies were relying on these 2 players too much, and they needed to be managed. As for Samo, I agree with Dam0, a couple of runs with the ball in hand does not make him a good No 8. I personally rated Macalman as a better palyer.

That is not a very nice thing to say about Samo. Fair? maybe, nice, no.

 

[Utility Back]

I think this is such a cop out. If the RWC was a year later nothing would have gone different except for the fact that we might have lost a few more tests in the meantime.

People seem to think that another year would have fixed certain things, but we had 4 years to fix said problems, why were they not fixed.

I think he's generally referring to youth and inexperience of the side. Maturity and experience being hard things to speed up.
I might believe we were a year too soon if we win the bledisloe next year.

 

[Athilnaur]

Are we scheduled for a three game Bledisloe? These two game Bledisloe are an evil NZRU plot.

Perhaps Suzie could ninja into their catering crew.

 

[Jay]

an evil NZRU plot.

But I doubt you were complaining from 99-02.....

 

[Athilnaur]

That was different, we had it then. Clearly once we get it back new rules will be required, I'm leaning to the 4N trick, that worked quite well this year.