Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
But they are currently the form players in those positions, who could play today...
We want to know who you'd pick for the Wallabies
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But they are currently the form players in those positions, who could play today...
Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
certainly my pick for those slots on form.
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
thats what I meant, I picked them in the survey
W
What2040
Guest
1. Robinson (the best scrummaging LHP - no question - but poor around the field in comparison to others particularly Alexander)
2. Moore (just - TPN really hitting form and is now nearly back to his best ever and both these 2 are light years ahead of Charles, Hansen and Saaia)
3. Slipper (very good scrummager at THP or even LHP and great around the field - seems to be under huge pressure at scrum time each week simply because of deficienies of his LHP - Reds scrum always looks much more solid when Greg Holmes comes on)
Bench prop would be Kepu - covers both sides and strong scrummager. Robinson can or will only play LHP whilst both Kepu and Slipper can can cover eaxch side. Palmer is a strong scrummager but poor around the field (has improved from pot plant status as many here call). Whilst we need a strong front row we also need props and hookers hitting mauls and rucks to dominate in these areas. Gone are the days of bookends and only bookends otherwise search for 2 x 150kg boofheads to do nothing else but scrum.
IMO Lealiifano is the form 10. and should get a run but Barnes will end up playing there. Genia will obviously get picked even though on form that selection is unwarranted. Feel the same about KB (Kurtley Beale). Having said that both blokes are champion footballers and hopefully will rise to the occasion.
2. Moore (just - TPN really hitting form and is now nearly back to his best ever and both these 2 are light years ahead of Charles, Hansen and Saaia)
3. Slipper (very good scrummager at THP or even LHP and great around the field - seems to be under huge pressure at scrum time each week simply because of deficienies of his LHP - Reds scrum always looks much more solid when Greg Holmes comes on)
Bench prop would be Kepu - covers both sides and strong scrummager. Robinson can or will only play LHP whilst both Kepu and Slipper can can cover eaxch side. Palmer is a strong scrummager but poor around the field (has improved from pot plant status as many here call). Whilst we need a strong front row we also need props and hookers hitting mauls and rucks to dominate in these areas. Gone are the days of bookends and only bookends otherwise search for 2 x 150kg boofheads to do nothing else but scrum.
IMO Lealiifano is the form 10. and should get a run but Barnes will end up playing there. Genia will obviously get picked even though on form that selection is unwarranted. Feel the same about KB (Kurtley Beale). Having said that both blokes are champion footballers and hopefully will rise to the occasion.
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Agree in regards to the front row. Yes Palmer is a good scrummager, but he is still shithouse around the field in comparison to Slipper and Kepu, who are pretty good scrummagers in their own right aswell.
BarneySF
Bob Loudon (25)
Gotta say lads, although I'm not on top of things at the moment (need to renew my cable subscription here in the US to get S15), I can't recall a more grim time in Aussie rugby. Brumbies aside, there doesn't seem to be much good news what with injuries, poor form, coach migrations and overall general lack of cattle. The only spark seems to be the promise of a new independent commission like structure governing body. Still harboring the dream that there are 3 or 4 gun players lurking in club rugby land who will appear out of left field to add some starch to the WBs (read: no.8; centres, front row).
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Palmer's workrate around the field is much improved this year...
Slipper's workrate doesn't make up for the fact that his scrummaging is not as good as Palmer, Kepu or possibly even Alexander (whose workrate around the field is the best of the bunch) at the moment...
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Slipper is only percieved as a poor scrummager due to who he has next to him and behind him. Daley,Hanson and Horwill are not good in the scrummaging department.
He is on level with Kepu as a scrummager, pair him with Moore and Robinson and you will see him prosper.
He is on level with Kepu as a scrummager, pair him with Moore and Robinson and you will see him prosper.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
No way...
Palmer and Kepu are by far the better tighthead scrummagers...
Robinson has a lock at loosehead, and Palmer and Kepu are the only candidates to start at tighthead for the Wobs...
That leaves Alexander and Slipper as the bench options, and with Alexander being the best of the lot around the field, and his scrummaging on both sides being pretty good recently that leaves Slipper watching from the stands...
Palmer and Kepu are by far the better tighthead scrummagers...
Robinson has a lock at loosehead, and Palmer and Kepu are the only candidates to start at tighthead for the Wobs...
That leaves Alexander and Slipper as the bench options, and with Alexander being the best of the lot around the field, and his scrummaging on both sides being pretty good recently that leaves Slipper watching from the stands...
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Lets put it this way, you'd be saying Palmer was useless if he played for QLD and Slipper would be gods gift to scrummaging if he was at the Brumbies.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Yeah, that must be it...
It has nothing to do with Slipper not being the best in his position at all...
Does Kepu play for the Brumbies?
Precious...
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
I can understand people pushing claims for Palmer, fair enough he is a good scrummager. There are arguements for and against him playing.
But then you said Alexander is above Slipper. Benny A has not been up to the same level as Kepu, Slipper and Palmer this season. Hence why people have even been mentioning Cowan and Holmes over him.
I can't see the front row being anything other then....
1-Robinson
2-Moore
3- Kepu/Slipper
16- Polota-Nau
17- Slipper/Kepu
But then you said Alexander is above Slipper. Benny A has not been up to the same level as Kepu, Slipper and Palmer this season. Hence why people have even been mentioning Cowan and Holmes over him.
I can't see the front row being anything other then....
1-Robinson
2-Moore
3- Kepu/Slipper
16- Polota-Nau
17- Slipper/Kepu
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Palmer/Alexander/Kepu are ahead of Slipper for me because of what Slim said but also combinations, a strong Wallabies scrummaging unit needs to from a combo from the club sides. Kepu will have Robinson and TPN with him and Palmer/Alexander will have Moore and each other.
If we assume Robinson and Moore and locks for the starting positions. The hooker will always have someone familiar next to them.
If we assume Robinson and Moore and locks for the starting positions. The hooker will always have someone familiar next to them.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
My opinion is that either Kepu OR Palmer starts at tighthead with one of them probably being omitted from the 22 if they don't start...
More so with the case of Palmer though... I wouldn't have him as an impact player...
P
Paradox
Guest
Alexander's scrummaging has been good this year. Fisher has targetted it: "we've tried to improve his shape in the scrum and it's about getting his body where he is transferring weight as opposed to doing everything himself."
As for workrate, Palmer and Kepu pretty much have the same stats in terms of tackling (Palmer makes has made more tackles in less minutes than Slipper according to these stats I have). Kepu hits the ball up more often and of course ruck involvements are never captured :-(. Alexander's work rate is massive though.
As for workrate, Palmer and Kepu pretty much have the same stats in terms of tackling (Palmer makes has made more tackles in less minutes than Slipper according to these stats I have). Kepu hits the ball up more often and of course ruck involvements are never captured :-(. Alexander's work rate is massive though.
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
I think it is who is behind him that makes the difference, Gill has finally realised that your shoulder has to "be under" the props arse to give some power, not on top of the props hips.
I think every Aussie scrum has the same issues. In my very poor judgment as a former prop and sometime flanker I think we have severe issues with binding, quite often the props and hookers dont seem to be "joined" as a unit and this allows flexibility where an opposition scrum can break into our scrum at the weakest point, this causes our front row to implode from either side and all of the power from behinds forces our props to turn in and reduce the width of our front row, this inturn allows it to be turned easily. Our loosies dont seem to understand the importance of helping add weight and strength to the scrum, they will have their heads up watching our scrum go backwards and then they will decide to help push. It is also common for our number 8's to push with their arms and then join in.
I think we need a new mentality where we dont think of a scrum being 8 men, it has to be seen as a single unit that hits at the same time as a team. As I said, I am possibly the worst person who could give an opinion but when you compare our scrums to others that are better then it is easy to look at what they do different and realise that maybe we should copy them.
FYI average ruck and maul stats for props 2012 super rugby season.
[gtable_top=650][/gtable_top][gtable_add_row_count]10[/gtable_add_row_count][gtable_add_col=string]Player[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Ruck and Maul[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Fast[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Normal[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Slow[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_data=0, 0]'Ben Daley'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 1]'3'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 2]'0.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 3]'2.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 4]'0.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 0]'Greg Holmes'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 1]'2.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 2]'0.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 3]'1.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 4]'0.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 0]'James Slipper'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 1]'4.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 2]'0.86'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 3]'2.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 4]'1'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 0]'Pekahou Cowan'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 1]'6.25'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 2]'1'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 3]'4.38'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 4]'0.88'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 0]'Salesi Ma’afu'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 1]'2.88'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 2]'0'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 3]'2.38'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 4]'0.5'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 0]'Benn Robinson'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 1]'3.86'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 2]'0.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 3]'2.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 4]'1.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 0]'Sekope Kepu'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 1]'2.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 2]'0.71'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 3]'1'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 4]'0.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 0]'Ben Alexander'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 1]'5.17'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 2]'0.5'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 3]'4.33'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 4]'0.33'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 0]'Dan Palmer'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 1]'2.2'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 2]'0.4'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 3]'1.4'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 4]'0.4'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 0]'Rodney Blake'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 1]'2.86'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 2]'0.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 3]'2.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 4]'0.29'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_end=Ruck and Maul Stats]Ruck and Maul Stats[/gtable_end]
[gtable_top=650][/gtable_top][gtable_add_row_count]10[/gtable_add_row_count][gtable_add_col=string]Player[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Ruck and Maul[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Fast[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Normal[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Slow[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_data=0, 0]'Ben Daley'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 1]'3'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 2]'0.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 3]'2.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 4]'0.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 0]'Greg Holmes'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 1]'2.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 2]'0.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 3]'1.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 4]'0.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 0]'James Slipper'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 1]'4.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 2]'0.86'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 3]'2.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 4]'1'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 0]'Pekahou Cowan'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 1]'6.25'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 2]'1'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 3]'4.38'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 4]'0.88'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 0]'Salesi Ma’afu'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 1]'2.88'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 2]'0'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 3]'2.38'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 4]'0.5'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 0]'Benn Robinson'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 1]'3.86'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 2]'0.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 3]'2.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=5, 4]'1.57'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 0]'Sekope Kepu'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 1]'2.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 2]'0.71'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 3]'1'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=6, 4]'0.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 0]'Ben Alexander'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 1]'5.17'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 2]'0.5'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 3]'4.33'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=7, 4]'0.33'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 0]'Dan Palmer'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 1]'2.2'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 2]'0.4'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 3]'1.4'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=8, 4]'0.4'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 0]'Rodney Blake'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 1]'2.86'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 2]'0.14'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 3]'2.43'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=9, 4]'0.29'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_end=Ruck and Maul Stats]Ruck and Maul Stats[/gtable_end]
W
What2040
Guest
Thanks Sully - very interesting chart for effort around the paddock - didn't realise Pek was that outstanding and Blake was better than Palmer and Kepu
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