Waratahs vs Reds - Round 1 - 2012R01

[Inside Shoulder]

Luck is where opportunity meets preparation;
or
The harder I work the luckier I get

 

[chasmac]

Good win to the reds away plus a likely 5 points from this weekend puts them in good shape.
I find Mackenzies approach to the favourites tag interesting. Rather than try and go into the games as the underdog he seems to be inviting the favourites tag. Genia has also been in the press with the same message.
Mackenzie impresses me, he seems to handle the media, the politics, the players welfare, the game plan all with an openness and a level of skill that is of the highest calibre. His column in the SMH is always illuminating.
He seems to say "this is what we are going to do" and then goes and does it, without bullshitting around. Good honest hard work. I can sense a reds dynasty over the next few years........ dammit.

 

[matty_k]

Palu's try was lucky he capitalised on a spill of the ball.
TPN's non try was unlucky based on the official's perceptions and positioning.
Shipperly's try started off a lucky turn over (from their perspective) or you could say that they were fortunate that the Tahs play didn't come off but the Reds still needed the skill and speed to score that try.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[wamberal]

Palu was in the right place, he did not fumble the ball, where's the luck in that?

TPN's try could have gone either way, match officials make decisions based upon what they see, in the light of the laws of the game. Where's the luck in that.


IMHO the only time luck comes into it is in the bounce of the rugby ball, and even then better players can to some extent control the bounce, and/or predict it.


If I was a coach, I would ban the use of the word "luck". Luck is a cop-out.

 

[Braveheart81]

I guess there are two completely opposite ways to view it. There's either luck involved in almost everything that happens on a rugby field purely on the basis that you can't control everything yourself or there's no luck involved because you had to be in the right place at the right time and execute correctly for it to happen.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Luck doesn't exist, you may as well say Jesus did it. Or the The Flying Spaghetti Monster touched the players with His Noodly Appendage.

 

[Swat]

Luck doesn't exist, you may as well say Jesus did it. Or the The Flying Spaghetti Monster touched the players with His Noodly Appendage.

Luck does exist. It occurs when a favourable outcome transpires which is beyond a person's control. Simple.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Luck does exist. It occurs when a favourable outcome transpires which is beyond a person's control. Simple.

Completely or partially beyond their control or beyond the capacity of man to understand the relationship between the outcome and input?
In the present context it is not luck that sees the other entity in the game kick you the ball, miss some tackling opportunities and have you score after the (AFL style) hooter.
That kick was the product of all that had gone before it in the game and possibly beyond.

 

[Braveheart81]

Luck does exist. It occurs when a favourable outcome transpires which is beyond a person's control. Simple.

Yes. Whether you use the word luck or chance, there is the simple fact that probability comes into it.

The Reds could have done exactly the same thing in the same situation multiple times but the result would not always be the same because it was contingent on the actions of others (the Tahs, the referee etc.).

 

[fatprop]

Waratah Adam Ashley-Cooper embraces switch from fullback to wing

• Adrian Warren
• AAP
• March 01, 2012 4:13PM

FAR from taking offence at being bumped from fullback yet again, Wallabies star Adam Ashley-Cooper is embracing his switch to the NSW Waratahs wing.
Sounding an alarm for the Melbourne Rebels on Friday night, Ashley-Cooper said he relished the wing position because it'll give him more freedom to roam in attack.
Waratahs coach Michael Foley continued a trend that's become all too familiar for Ashley-Cooper, both with the Wallabies and his former Super Rugby team the Brumbies, when he took advantage of his versatility for the clash with the Rebels at AAMI Park.
Wanting to make room for the impressive Bernard Foley, he picked him at fullback and shifted Ashley-Cooper to the wing in place of youngster Brackin Karauria-Henry.
"I've certainly got no problems with that,'' said Ashley-Cooper, who had also spent much time at outside centre.
"I love the wing. I think that wing probably gives me the most freedom actually.
"15 (fullback) at times can be a little structured, so I'm really going to embrace the wing this week and really go searching for that ball.''
With former Waratah Kurtley Beale ruled out of the Melbourne side, newcomer Foley is well aware of the threat from the prodigious kicking of Rebels replacement fullback Mark Gerrard.
"I have played against him and he does have an absolute monstrous boot and I think he will be a challenge,'' Foley said.
"But then also having (five-eighth) Danny Cipriani, with his left-foot kicking the other side of the field is another challenge.''
Foley has spent most of his career at five-eighth but played several games at fullback for Sydney University.
One intriguing head-to-head battle on Friday will be between Waratahs' hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau and his former NSW team-mate and rival Adam Freier.
"I'm pretty sure he'll be looking forward to getting in amongst the action,'' said Polota-Nau.
"I actually look forward to confronting him, but also trying to get the better of him too.
"I've got the (afro) hair nice and fluffed up today, so hopefully he can feel the action amongst the scrum.''
Asked if Freier was a good sledger, Polota-Nau said ``Usually, but I'll let my actions do the sledging.
"For me, it's important that we probably worry about our own sort of stuff, rather than listen to his little niggles.''

 

[Inside Shoulder]

That does not make it luck: that merely reflects that the game is played by 2 teams and refereed by a human being.
If you hit a cross court top spin forehand in tennis the additional distance to the basline makes it more probable that the shot will not be long than if you hit the same shot down the line. Thats all probability has to do with it: aka playing the percentages!

 

[Schadenfreude]

Yes. Whether you use the word luck or chance, there is the simple fact that probability comes into it.

The Reds could have done exactly the same thing in the same situation multiple times but the result would not always be the same because it was contingent on the actions of others (the Tahs, the referee etc.).

Ok now count all the times they had bad luck - like Palu's try, take that one away and Qld still win.

 

[emuarse]

Exactly what I expected from that game. I'm just happy my side came out on top of that dour affair.

Hanson and Higginbotham were our best.

So guess who's not playing because of injuries for the Force match this week- yep, Hanson & Higgers

 

[Braveheart81]

I think that's my entire point. There is a lot of luck or chance involved in a sport with teams competing directly against each other.

Palu's try was definitely lucky. Part of what makes him a good player is that he was in the right place at the right time. The nature of luck is that you can put yourself in that position a hundred times and only once will the ball pop out nicely for you to pick up and fall over the line to score.

The Tahs were unlucky that Polota-Nau's try was disallowed for a knock on that wasn't a knock on.

 

[Swat]

That does not make it luck: that merely reflects that the game is played by 2 teams and refereed by a human being.
If you hit a cross court top spin forehand in tennis the additional distance to the basline makes it more probable that the shot will not be long than if you hit the same shot down the line. Thats all probability has to do with it: aka playing the percentages!

You can still play the percentages and be lucky. What if you hit the exact same shot twice, but on one occasion it is returned and the other occasion it hit's a bird, stays in and you win the point.

 

[suckerforred]

And don't you mob bring the frame of reference into it........ please.....

 

[Scoey]

Of course The Reds won fair and square. That doesn't mean they weren't lucky.

The issue is that since your side lost, you saying the Reds were lucky, gives the impression to the Reds fans that you think the win is undeserving. I know that's not the case here but that is the first reaction that stirs in the gut.

But it is hard to take also when a team or individual comes from behind at the death and snatches victory in the last minute, and then someone says that it was luck. To digress a little, take Steve Bradbury. He has a famous quote that goes something like, "...it took me twenty years of hard work to become an overnight success."

The Reds played their ring off (as did the Tahs) for 80 minutes with the intention of winning. Making the most of the opportunities that present themselves isn't luck - it's good footy.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You can still play the percentages and be lucky. What if you hit the exact same shot twice, but on one occasion it is returned and the other occasion it hit's a bird, stays in and you win the point.

That aint luck thats how good your opponent is - I guess you could say its luck that you met him or her in the draw instead of someone else but even then thats partly due to whether and where you were seeded and that in turn is due to how you played in prior comp......in other words its where opportunity meets all the prep.

 

[p.Tah]

Com'on everyone. This was last week. Bring on the Force and the Rebels.

 

[qwerty51]

This thread has nothing on Tahs/Reds threads from the past..