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Waratahs vs Reds - Round 1 - 2012R01

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Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
I thought the Reds had a better first half. The Palu try felt a bit against the run of play, thanks to a completely woeful non-clearance from around 4 Reds backs. The Reds backs looked off in the first half compared to last year, but they looked world beaters compared to the Tahs backs, who couldn't even get it wide without throwing at least two poor loopy passes behind the man. From memory, outside of a short run from Kingston, I don't think the Tahs backs would like to see any of that half of football again. Despite some good counter rucking from the forwards, it felt like the Reds had more territory and possession, and I thought the Reds looked more likely to score a try, despite Palu scoring the only try for the Tahs.

First half tactics looked interesting - Reds held onto the ball a lot more, and the Tahs seemed more content to kick.

Then came half time, 10 minutes of roughly even football and then from about the 50th minute, it seems like the Reds had had enough and went to sleep until they decided to score the 80th minute winner. Reds seemed suddenly content to kick away decent ball (like a woeful Genia one that went straight up off a wonderful maul), and the Tahs got better field position and kicked less. As a Reds supporter, a Tahs victory felt inevitable by about the 60th minute as the Reds players had collectively clocked off, and the Tahs forwards had decided to step up a gear and showed some fantastic aggression at the breakdown. Then a 79th minute brain snap, some lazy defending from Horne and Alcock and Shipperley ran 60 metres to score a fantastic but lucky try. Incidentally, I thought Shipperley had a woeful, woeful game until that last try.

Even as a Reds fan, I will freely admit it was a damn lucky escape, as only one team looked the victor for the last 20 minutes. But it does make up for that first game in 2010, a little bit.

Both teams looked rusty. Reds need to work on their breakdown, their body height was too high and they got pushed off the ball all too easily. Their numbers weren't too bad, but they got pushed around by a hungrier side. Genia looked very underdone, and the connection to Harris needs more work. Harris could do with watching a few videos of Cooper controlling the Reds backline from last year, particularly the way he bossed his forwards. I wonder if Harris can throw a long ball? It was nice to see an improved scrum from the Reds, as well. Really, the Reds came out similar to last year, looking a week or two behind in their ruck work and forward play around the park, one maul aside.

The Tahs backline just didn't click. Halangahu didn't seem to connect with his centres, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) seemed uninterested. In particular, the Tahs probably needed their Wallabies in Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to step up with their depleted backline to provide some guidance, and neither did, but hopefully they will get better after a few games in. The good parts were Pretorious, the aggression at the breakdown, and how they played a little smarter and seemed to give away less penalties in the second half. They will get better when Barnes returns.
 
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spooony

Guest
Defences are too sophisticated to wear down now. They conducted a study involving two sides who got to seven phases or more on 18 occasions and only two tries were scored. If you recycle and recycle you end up with fewer attackers than defenders because generally you need four blokes to win the ball and three to contest it
 

Wallatahs

Allen Oxlade (6)
I thought that was the right call. Ball went slightly forward off Kingston, was made to look better by the fact Kingston continued forward after touching the ball.
Even the one-eyed Queenslander Greg Martin thought it went backwards. At worst it was flat.

Watch the touchie - he was in the best position to rule on this, 5m away directly inline with an unobstructed view, and he just follows TPN to the tryline.

Peyper was even worse - look 13-14 seconds in - he follows the play for around close to 10m then decides to stop and blow the whistle.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Nah the touchie was the one who called the knock on. I heard it on the sports ears at the ground.

And on rewatching the footage you can clearly see him touch his chest (to activate the comms with the ref) and speak, even though he half-heartedly keeps up with the play.
 

Wallatahs

Allen Oxlade (6)
Nah the touchie was the one who called the knock on. I heard it on the sports ears at the ground.
Interesting - I didn't think it was Peyper given that he kept running then planted both feet with a hop when he decided to blow the whistle.
 

Wallatahs

Allen Oxlade (6)
Do we know which touchie - Ian Smith (Queenslander) or Angus Gardiner (New South Welshman)?... Not that i'm suggesting that there was any bias.
 
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pete88

Guest
Do we know which touchie - Ian Smith (Queenslander) or Angus Gardiner (New South Welshman)?... Not that i'm suggesting that there was any bias.
If you're not suggesting bias, why is the state of the touchie that made the call relevant?

EDIT: For the record I think the only thing that is certain about it is that it was unclear on the replay.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I have to admit, the replay suggests the call was questionable at best. In real time, I had the impression that it went a little forward. I am less convinced now. I would rather they didn't miss the horribly forward ones and the blatant knock-ons (as in the Force / Brumbies game), than pull up the ones like this that are extremely marginal, if forward at all.
But these things will always happen, so we suck it up and move on.
 

Wallatahs

Allen Oxlade (6)
If you're not suggesting bias, why is the state of the touchie that made the call relevant?

EDIT: For the record I think the only thing that is certain about it is that it was unclear on the replay.
I'm suggesting incompetent refereeing by someone who has a history of favoring his state of birth over their arch rivals - remember this guy? http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-queensland-at-scrum-time-20110424-1dt0l.html

I guess that's bias...

Honestly, I don't mean to take anything away from the Reds - looking back on it, the Tahs had their chance to win and didn't take it - well done to the Reds. My issue is separate from the two teams. I'm just not sure why we allow referees to participate in games which involve their state of birth. 50/50 calls always have to go one way over the other.
 

biggsy

Chilla Wilson (44)
Wonder if TPN can keep up his stats for going down in every game this year for the Tar's. 1 for 1 already for 2012
 
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pete88

Guest
I have to admit, the replay suggests the call was questionable at best. In real time, I had the impression that it went a little forward. I am less convinced now. I would rather they didn't miss the horribly forward ones and the blatant knock-ons (as in the Force / Brumbies game), than pull up the ones like this that are extremely marginal, if forward at all.
But these things will always happen, so we suck it up and move on.

Yeah fair point cyclo, benefit of the doubt should keep the ref's whistle in his pocket. I actually suspect the touchie actually had a better view than we did on that camera angle, I think most refs don't make a call when they're not sure and it sounds like this one was pretty immediate (I didn't have sports ears).
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
I actually thought it was a fair try, BUT nothing we say or do here will make one iota of difference. Any second now there will be a video from the grassy knoll.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Ash,

I don't think Harris needs to be able to throw a Cooper like long ball - just get his passes out in front of the man. Too many went at or slightly behind the man.

The average passing served to compile to difficulty we were having in attack, most of which was created by our difficulty to quickly recycle the ball.

I feel over this first round that refs have been too focussed on the attacking team at the ruck and not enough on the defensive team. This is making it harder for the attacking team to put together a meaningful attack.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Do we know which touchie - Ian Smith (Queenslander) or Angus Gardiner (New South Welshman)?... Not that i'm suggesting that there was any bias.

It was Ian Smith.

A lot is said about 'the benefit of the doubt', but really when things are happening that fast there is no time for such mental calculations. Either you think it's a knock on or you don't. There is no grey area when things are going that fast. He thought it went forward and called it. From viewing it at real time I am inclined to agree with him.

.
 

Wallatahs

Allen Oxlade (6)
Mate, if he can out-sprint your wingers, forward pass or not, i dont care how often he goes down :)
I know this is moot - but did he get the ball down?

Watching it live, I was so concerned about the grounding that I missed the forward pass call.
 
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