Waratahs vs Crusaders - 2011R03

[Penguin]

Geez it doesn't take much for some of you Tah 'fans' to turn on your team like rabid dogs. A week a long time in sport? You bet.

 

[fatprop]

I wonder if there is any correlation between Horne's injury and the Crusaders outside backs doing so well in the last 10 minutes of the first half.

 

[#1 Tah]

Geez it doesn't take much for some of you Tah 'fans' to turn on your team like rabid dogs. A week a long time in sport? You bet.

Pingu, it is possible to let your teams colours run through your veins while offering some mildly aggressive constructive criticism.

Also, we beat qld.



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[Richo]

I wonder if there is any correlation between Horne's injury and the Crusaders outside backs doing so well in the last 10 minutes of the first half.

Combined with the Cooperesque efforts from Hangers...

 

[Hawko]

Geez it doesn't take much for some of you Tah 'fans' to turn on your team like rabid dogs. A week a long time in sport? You bet.

Yes a week is a long time in sport and a fortnight's even longer. I have a feeling that the Cheetahs are going to feel a bit of pain in two week's time. But Friday was very disappointing. Its not like we were playing like the other aussie teams, we genuinely looked like we were contenders. And I think we still are. We just got a reality check of about 10 on the Richter scale.

But I am sure glad I support the Tahs. The other four aussie teams looked just about clueless and have got a lot further to go than us to be competitive.

Its only round 3 and still early days, but I reckon Blues, Saders, Tahs, Bulls and Stormers will clear out from the rest, with only the Sharks and maybe the Reds a chance to come into reckoning. We'll know more after round 6 after the Sharks have played the Saders and the Blues have played the Chiefs and the Hurricanes.

 

[Lindommer]

Now Tahs fans know exactly how Reds supporters felt last week. You go into a match full of expectation only to see that your team hasn't turned up and the opposition is on fire. Can't help but think that the physicality of last weekend's game might have had something to do with it. Also, while it might be an emotional time for the Saders they had fresh legs after a week off.

Couldn't agree more, s. That was the reality check we Tahs' supporters had to have. There I was last Sunday having lunch at the Creek with a couple of Reds' supporters, them slapping me on the back and telling me HOW GOOD THE TAHS WERE. It ain't natural I tells ya. Fair dinkum, I had to have a shower and a good lie down. And a good Shiraz Viognier to clear my mind.

On reflection the Tahs were never going to win against the Saders. The emotion tied in with the week off made it easy for them to get up. With the wisdom of hindsight Blackadder's comment about training was the clue: they had a shit first session after the earthquake but Tuesday's training run was the best and most accurate he'd ever seen. Added to their pumped-up condition the few key Tahs players missing hurt us badly. We MUST have TPN, Robinson, (a fit) Waugh, Palu, Barnes and Horne on the paddock to win this comp. Hickey needs a kick up the clacker for playing Waugh, when oh when will selectors stand up to injured senior players, even if they're the captain. I'm looking at you Phil Waugh, and you Ricky Ponting. Hickey needs another kick up the clacker for not keeping Beau Robinson. If Waugh's out for a stretch, a la 2008, Robinson'd be mighty handy, a la 2008.

The ref didn't lose us this game, in fact he had bugger all influence on it. Injuries to key players cruelled our chances badly but the hesitancy of our forwards as the match progressed didn't help our cause. And Hangers chose the worst time to put in a shocker. I mean, kicking off to a pod of Saders forwards in expectation Turner would somehow snaffle the pill? Not once but THREE TIMES! Dumb, dumb, dumb. Daniel, you're tackling is regressing to level only marginally above Cooper's. Do those 400 big ones from Ulster still play on your mind?

A reality check we had to have. Glad it was early in the season.

 

[topo]

Yes a week is a long time in sport and a fortnight's even longer. I have a feeling that the Cheetahs are going to feel a bit of pain in two week's time. But Friday was very disappointing. Its not like we were playing like the other aussie teams, we genuinely looked like we were contenders. And I think we still are. We just got a reality check of about 10 on the Richter scale.

But I am sure glad I support the Tahs. The other four aussie teams looked just about clueless and have got a lot further to go than us to be competitive.

Its only round 3 and still early days, but I reckon Blues, Saders, Tahs, Bulls and Stormers will clear out from the rest, with only the Sharks and maybe the Reds a chance to come into reckoning. We'll know more after round 6 after the Sharks have played the Saders and the Blues have played the Chiefs and the Hurricanes.

Where have you got the Highlanders finishing, Hawko?

 

[fatprop]

Massive step up for the Tahs, so far they have played well, but they haven't been challenged physically or technically.

The Rebels collapsed and gave them an opposed training run and Reds where not up to the physical battle.

The Crusaders will match our physicality (clearly), and it will then come down to the technical stuff (they owned us).

Who kicks to space better (both sides have deadly kick return options (Crusaders), can Hangers be accurate under pressure) (nup), who is more accurate at ruck and maul (Crusaders, by a long way), can Baxter keep his side up against a technically decent prop who can scrummage as low as he does (nup) and can Tom Carter et al stop the short passing game of SBW. (nup - not all his own fault but .......)

I hate it when I am right, but after watching this game, and the other Aus games, I think the Aus sides just aren't playing with the same intensity/quality of the other pools. So far I haven't seen any evidence that more "derby" pool games is making for better Aus rugby.

 

[DPK]

I hate it when I am right, but after watching this game, and the other Aus games, I think the Aus sides just aren't playing with the same intensity/quality of the other pools. So far I haven't seen any evidence that more "derby" pool games is making for better Aus rugby.

Well if we're three rounds in and we havent seen any improvement, we may as well abandon this farce.

(Just fishing, obviously)

 

[Nusadan]

Perhaps the Oz players are just saving themselves to win the World Cup later this year?

 

[Muttonbird]

woah woah woah, ease up waratahs fans. i think you all need to take a deep breath and look at the situation here

the waratahs were never going to win that match, even before kick-off. why might you ask. the crusaders were playing on EMOTION. any team playing a team that is playing on emotion has two things that are going against them:

1. the crusaders had that little bit of extra motivation, which allowed them to surge above their normal level of playing ability (both collectively and individually). they were literally playing for their city. add this to their first round loss and them not playing next week, the crusaders were fucking hungry.

2. the waratahs' hearts were never going to be in it. although you might say 'they're a professional team, they shouldn't be allowed to be sucked into off-field issues'; the reality is that they are HUMAN, which allowed them to think 'fuck i feel sorry for these guys'. of course they wouldn't deliberately lose, however this would have always been subconsciously playing on their minds.

so, waratahs fans, i'm not excusing the loss and saying that they only lost because of this. but put things in perspective, it was a lose/lose situation for them. credit to both teams for the manner in which the game was played, especially the waratahs, you've gained a bit of respect from someone north of the border...

:lmao:

So the Waratahs let the Crusaders win? Awww, that was real nice of them.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

I hate it when I am right, but after watching this game, and the other Aus games, I think the Aus sides just aren't playing with the same intensity/quality of the other pools. So far I haven't seen any evidence that more "derby" pool games is making for better Aus rugby.

Was that what it was supposed to do? I thought it was to improve the quality of the aru accounts

 

[Hawko]

Where have you got the Highlanders finishing, Hawko?

Mid table. They've played OK, but they are limited and the teams they've played have looked to be having a bad day. I forecast them for 14th in my ladder tipping competition but they'll do way better than that.

I think they'll struggle against the Stormers defensive set-up next week and then I have grave fears for their safety the week after because they play the Crusaders after the long trip home from hell plus the jetlag adjustment.

 

[Scotty]

If my memory serves me correctly, the Highlanders normally play well after their SA trip. They are, and always have been a tough side, with reasonably consistent performances.

 

[Gnostic]

I haven't read the the thread but has anybody noted that Crocket bored in at most scrums and drove across.

I think that this was the last chance (if he ever really had one) for Baxter and his career is now finished. It is a pity because when he had to scrum legally Baxter has no problem with Crocket and in fact got two penalties against him (one for hand down and one for collapsing).

Judging from the thread on the page the continued inconsistancy from the referees is cuasing a big amount of trouble.

For mine the keys issues were:-

1) Hangers - woeful, terrible, shocking defence. How long has he been in the Tahs system now, and he is still average at best on defence. Average at best on attack. WTF is Burke doing to totally destroy the abilities of our three kickers who last year had very good success rates. Say good by to Burkey and get Scotty Bowen as kick coach as well, he could give one a decent nudge in his day.
2) Scrum - as I said above IMO it was refereed very very poorly and no real assessment can be made except that all opponents will target Baxter as it is a better than even call that the Referee will penalise Baxter or allow illegal scrumaging against him. Since Palmer is gone it may well be time to call up Ryan to take over at THP and keep Kepu to cover both sides. IMHO it doesn't matter anymore that Baxter is the better THP in the nSW squad, not when he will be targetted in such a fashion which can turn a game.
3) Hickey needs to be shot for playing injured players AGAIN.
4) The 6 day turn around may well have been a bridge too far with two very physical games in the two weeks previous.
5) Cross is as rubbish as I said at the start of the season. If his form last year had been a shadow of his 2009 form that got him selected in the Wallabies I could understand his signing, the fact is it is not and hasn't been for some time.

 

[fatprop]

Baxter and the Tahs scrum was OK until Fitzpatrick took the field, it then turn to shit until Kepu was replaced with Robinson. From then on it was OK again. My inference from that is that we can compete with 2/3 of our first choice, not 1/3.

Marshall commented about Fitzpatrick's lack of a strike which was pretty obvious. I couldn't understand why they didn't revert to channel one ball and get the ball out quick. Instead we seemed to be wanting to walk over the ball with an 8 man shove and got owned.

I also couldn't understand why Mowen was dicking around at the back so much while we were under a load of pressure

 

[fatprop]

Time to play stats world, shit the Tahs missed a lot of tackles


Attempted - 267
Ineffective - 35
Missed - 41
TACKLES MADE 191 (72%)

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match4360.html

 

[Hawko]

Time to play stats world, shit the Tahs missed a lot of tackles


Attempted - 267
Ineffective - 35
Missed - 41
TACKLES MADE 191 (72%)

Those are bad numbers, Have you got a link or an individual breakdown?

 

[Bruce Ross]

I also couldn't understand why Mowen was dicking around at the back so much while we were under a load of pressure

I like it, fp. "Dicking around at the back" is an excellent technical term for the modern practice of the 8 ponderously picking the ball up from the scrum and shovelling it on to the half back. Mowen's efforts on Friday could form the basis for an instructional DVD on the practice.

In a less enlightened and more innocent age, the 8 would have his legs extended in an effective pushing alignment which would also hinder the opposition half back coming behind the scrum. He would direct the ball out to his right side so that the half back could pick it up unmolested. It could be worth trying again as a surprise tactic.

 

[Hawko]

I like it, fp. "Dicking around at the back" is an excellent technical term for the modern practice of the 8 ponderously picking the ball up from the scrum and shovelling it on to the half back. Mowen's efforts on Friday could form the basis for an instructional DVD on the practice.

In a less enlightened and more innocent age, the 8 would have his legs extended in an effective pushing alignment which would also hinder the opposition half back coming behind the scrum. He would direct the ball out to his right side so that the half back could pick it up unmolested. It could be worth trying again as a surprise tactic.

Bruce, You are going to have to desist with this technical stuff from the old days. Everyone knows that Gen Y or Z or whatever alphabet number we are in, can't be told anything because they already know it all (ref. Brumbies backline). Ergo, if it appears that 8's are dicking around at the back then its really a very smart strategy to include the opposition half in the play. Everyone knows that we need to be more inclusive. Last week it was very inclusive. Just about every Crusader in the pack got the chance to pick up the ball from our scrum.

The other thing we could have done is while the 8's shoulders were still engaged and keeping the oppo halfback onside, he could have scooped the ball back to the halfback. I've seen that from a number of NH teams, but not often here. But your solution is the cleanest and most sensible, with the old Catchpole dive-pass to clear the contact area.