Waratahs vs Crusaders - 2011R03

[qwerty51]

Fitzpatrick's scrummaging wasn't because of his poor strength. He'd be one of the strongest in the squad.

 

[gone]

Those blaming the ref are delusioned. The tahs yet again were outmuscled. For me, Douglas was the only one to hold his own. Kepu, Baxter, Mumm, Dennis, Mowen were shown up by their opposites. Phil Waugh even, whose injury may have played its part, was shown up by Matt Todd.

The backs were hard to judge due to lack of ball and lack of service. Halangahu was awful, Carter needs to look at his opposite to see what makes an international 12 - he was really taken to school tonight by a leaguie, awesome performance from SBW and Robbie Freuan. Horne needs to stay on the field if he wants to make the wallabies.

The tahs are well off the pace at this stage. They need better options at 3, 6, 8 (Palu), 10 (Barnes) and 12. But remember the Crusaders were without 2 starters (McCaw and Guildford) and several bench players (Crotty, Fotuali'i)

 

[Aussie D]

Michael Foley and John Muggleton have a lot of work ahead of them after tonight's performance. After all the talk over the off-season about the 'tahs bulking up so that they were not outmuscled again it hasn't seem to have worked as the first time they have played a non-Oz team they have been ragdolled. Did Phil Waugh play injured? If he wasn't then Deans made the right call by dropping him from the Wallaby squad as he was a pace or two behind his opposing openside all night.

Also, if anyone knows Tom Carter can they please advise him that it is not wise niggling opposing players when you are 20 points behind as it is just ridiculous.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Well I'm always a little torn between the Tahs and Saders, Saders are my fav team based on the way that they play and Tahs based on me being from NSW (obviously cant have x2 Super Rugby symbols but I'd have the Tahs there too if I could). Anyways, good game by the Saders, deserved the victory but I echo the same sediments about the ref and certainly that without Barnes and TPN the Tahs seem a bit wayward, Tahs need those guys 100% fit.

 

[Moses]

I just watched a few of the first half scrums again, there were a few problems.
Firstly, the Crusaders were pushing our pack before the ball was in, so our front row had already retreated a foot or so when Burgess put it in. Is this Burgo's fault for feeding it? Surely had he held on to the ball he'd have won a penalty for the early shove?
The scrum on skates meant Fitzy was unable to hook the ball, so the Crusaders already with momentum continued to drive until they had the ball.

 

[cyclopath]

Carter did not do a lot wrong; he also did not do a lot that would have tipped the game to the Tahs. SBW's try was not his fault - Hangers was rudely shown up as Money Bill waltzed past, with Hangers (whose man he was) barely able to get within 3m of him.
SBW? I think the effusive praise is ill-given. Sure, he scored a try any good centre would have - the hole was that big. He also threw a forward pass for a try - which was let go; he threw a few balls along the ground and / or forward, a hail mary fling from 10m out, so he wasn't all that. But he had a couple of very nice offloads. A really good 12 would have had his measure. With time, that may be less so.

 

[qwerty51]

Those blaming the ref are delusioned. The tahs yet again were outmuscled. For me, Douglas was the only one to hold his own. Kepu, Baxter, Mumm, Dennis, Mowen were shown up by their opposites. Phil Waugh even, whose injury may have played its part, was shown up by Matt Todd.

How are we delusional? I'm yet to see one of us that have blamed us losing the game on the ref. We've all acknowledge he was shit for both sides. And he was. I'm going to go watch a recording and note how many things he got wrong.

 

[qwerty51]

I just watched a few of the first half scrums again, there were a few problems.
Firstly, the Crusaders were pushing our pack before the ball was in, so our front row had already retreated a foot or so when Burgess put it in. Is this Burgo's fault for feeding it? Surely had he held on to the ball he'd have won a penalty for the early shove?
The scrum on skates meant Fitzy was unable to hook the ball, so the Crusaders already with momentum continued to drive until they had the ball.

That's exactly how I saw it. If the hooker is trying to hook the ball, they're got one foot off the ground and therefore are off balance and susceptible to being pushed backwards. The ref should've been penalising the Crusaders for pushing before the ball was in.

 

[maxdacat]

Those blaming the ref are delusioned. The tahs yet again were outmuscled. For me, Douglas was the only one to hold his own. Kepu, Baxter, Mumm, Dennis, Mowen were shown up by their opposites. Phil Waugh even, whose injury may have played its part, was shown up by Matt Todd.

The backs were hard to judge due to lack of ball and lack of service. Halangahu was awful, Carter needs to look at his opposite to see what makes an international 12 - he was really taken to school tonight by a leaguie, awesome performance from SBW and Robbie Freuan. Horne needs to stay on the field if he wants to make the wallabies.

The tahs are well off the pace at this stage. They need better options at 3, 6, 8 (Palu), 10 (Barnes) and 12. But remember the Crusaders were without 2 starters (McCaw and Guildford) and several bench players (Crotty, Fotuali'i)

agree [edit - maybe the odd hint of a forward pass early on] but there was a lot of hyping NSW up in the last few days but it's basically the best in oz against the best in NZ, ie a typical Aus-AB's game....would Wallabies supporters be similarly enthused about such a match up on kiwi home soil?

As a precurser to the world cup.....is it actually possible these days to get an oz team who convert their kicks and hold a scrum?...very worrying.

but still...good game (8/10 at least for skillz), i don't think i've ever seen so many good offloads (plus the odd dog from SBW in the first half).

 

[Shiggins]

I thought the reff was pretty bad. The saders conceded that many ruck penalties in the second half and didn't even get a warning let alone a card.

Also how the fuck can a half back kick the ball out on the back of the scrum when the ball is still in?

It's hard too say if sbw is more of a risk then a good 12. His offloads work sometimes but it was probably half and half.


Go the force!!!!

 

[maxdacat]

Apart from the forward pass, and a few other little things, I thought that was one of the better refing performances i've seen this season.

yeah he got knocked down and got up again.....




all without blowing the whistle

 

[Bowside]

I thought the reff was pretty bad. The saders conceded that many ruck penalties in the second half and didn't even get a warning let alone a card.

Also how the fuck can a half back kick the ball out on the back of the scrum when the ball is still in?

It's hard too say if sbw is more of a risk then a good 12. His offloads work sometimes but it was probably half and half.


Go the force!!!!

The commentators said it was because Mowen had pulled his shoulders and weight away from the scrum, and therefore according to the rules he was deemed to have detached himself. Bit pedantic, but without a halfback to there to pick up the ball you run the risk of it happening.

 

[MrMouse]

Those blaming the ref are delusioned. The tahs yet again were outmuscled. For me, Douglas was the only one to hold his own. Kepu, Baxter, Mumm, Dennis, Mowen were shown up by their opposites. Phil Waugh even, whose injury may have played its part, was shown up by Matt Todd.

The backs were hard to judge due to lack of ball and lack of service. Halangahu was awful, Carter needs to look at his opposite to see what makes an international 12 - he was really taken to school tonight by a leaguie, awesome performance from SBW and Robbie Freuan. Horne needs to stay on the field if he wants to make the wallabies.

The tahs are well off the pace at this stage. They need better options at 3, 6, 8 (Palu), 10 (Barnes) and 12. But remember the Crusaders were without 2 starters (McCaw and Guildford) and several bench players (Crotty, Fotuali'i)

Mate not one person has said we lost because of the refereeing. Also STRONGLY disagree re Douglas, I thought it was his worst effort for the Tahs. Mowen came close to parity against the World XV 8, which is pretty impressive.

Disagree to some extent re Dennis and Carter, and I think it's as silly to say that we're well off the pace after that game as to say we're definite #1 after the Rebels game.

 

[Sully]

It must be disturbing for the Tahs to have put so much effort into muscling up to then be pushed aside with such ease. The lack of depth at 5/8 and hooker is scarey. Out centre also seems to be a problem.
Bad luck guys I did my Superbru dollars on you.

 

[Shiggins]

Todd gets a pilfer when he is the tackler and doesn't release - in the crusaders 22. Last year would have penalized the other way. But overall the ref wasn't too bad.

Halangahu should never play again. Fitzpatrick is not up to it. There was not a single pilfer by the tahs. Mccutcheon was never going to get one. Robinson looked the most likely. Perhaps he should be a 7.

Burges Got a pilfer


Go the force!!!!

 

[Scotty]

I think part of the issue was also the same problem to the reds. They had a tough physical match the week before with a much shorter turnaround than their opponents. Maybe both performances (reds and tahs) should be seen in a different light.

 

[qwerty51]

It must be disturbing for the Tahs to have put so much effort into muscling up to then be pushed aside with such ease. The lack of depth at 5/8 and hooker is scarey. Out centre also seems to be a problem.
Bad luck guys I did my Superbru dollars on you.

More disturbing for the teams the Tahs beat wouldn't you say?

I don't think it's a problem personally, we were a battered team coming against a fresh Crusaders side at home. I didn't expect us to win the collisions. No one else will share the thoughts but I think the result would be significantly different if we had a week off with our full strength side at home, no major injuries during the match either.

 

[PaarlBok]

Would not been nice to the Canterbury lot if you have beat them at home today. See it as the Tahs contribution to them.

 

[gone]

Mate not one person has said we lost because of the refereeing. Also STRONGLY disagree re Douglas, I thought it was his worst effort for the Tahs. Mowen came close to parity against the World XV 8, which is pretty impressive.

Disagree to some extent re Dennis and Carter, and I think it's as silly to say that we're well off the pace after that game as to say we're definite #1 after the Rebels game.

Interesting how some people see some things differently. No slight against you but I actually thought Douglas was great, best I've seen from him because he had very little help. Mowen I thought average, Read just inserted himself at different times when needed though he great support from Todd and G. Whitelock. The Crusaders loose forwards had it all over the Tahs loose forwards for me, particularly between the 20th and 60th minute which was the crucial period.

 

[Charlemagne]

Thought that Halangahu was terrible and the Tahs missed Barnes especially with the early kicking, also really worried about TPN as we will need him for the world cup!