Waratahs vs Chiefs - Super Rugby RD6 2012

[Froggy]

The Tahs backs are just an average bunch at the moment. They are behind a strong pack who were making good yards and giving front foot ball.

Barnes passing was/is atrocious for a 10, 80% or more were high and behind the man., 2 kicks not going the 10, his woeful kick gave the ball back to the chiefs and they scored a few plays later. He must have turned the ball over at least 6 times! Carter and Horne offer nothing. Horne has to be lucky to survive in my opinion. Never makes a bust and misses plenty of tackles this season. Needs a wake up. Kingston looks likely, big strong and quick, good on his feet. Could be a long term 13 in a year or two.

I'd be looking at McKibbon, Foley, Kingston, Carter, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Hornes? Or ayone else and Barnes at the back.

Never happy to lose, but I saw a lot to be encouraged by. A few close calls going the other way might have helped, but I think the result was a fair one overall.

The Waratah forwards were pretty strong throughout. I thought the main mistake was flinging it to the backs generally a bit too early. A bit more pick and drive and pop passes would have made the difference - giving the backs a bit more space, and making more time for the (often rushed in this game) last play/pass. As it was there was a lot of lateral movement from the backs without much penetration - oh for a Mitchell or a Beale!

Anyway, well done Chiefs, you look the goods.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If McKibbin didn't kick the ball in the final minutes of the Reds game...if Hangers kicked the relatively easy conversion in the Highlanders match...if the AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) try wasn't disallowed against the Force... coulda, woulda, shoulda. Bottom line is if they were good enough they would have found a way to win.

I thought you might need the lifeline number....

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Not sure what you were trying to do there Froggy ..... but I would have to agree with bernie about Barnes' passing. the back line is functioning like an u14s unit.
Whats the view about Gaffney's contribution thus far? Frankly they look worse than ever...not that I'm necessarily blaming him.

 

[Froggy]

The Tahs backs are just an average bunch at the moment. They are behind a strong pack who were making good yards and giving front foot ball.

Barnes passing was/is atrocious for a 10, 80% or more were high and behind the man., 2 kicks not going the 10, his woeful kick gave the ball back to the chiefs and they scored a few plays later. He must have turned the ball over at least 6 times! Carter and Horne offer nothing. Horne has to be lucky to survive in my opinion. Never makes a bust and misses plenty of tackles this season. Needs a wake up. Kingston looks likely, big strong and quick, good on his feet. Could be a long term 13 in a year or two.

I'd be looking at McKibbon, Foley, Kingston, Carter, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Hornes? Or ayone else and Barnes at the back.

I think Barnes had an absolute shocker, but hopefully it was a one-off, he showed last year (when fit) just how good he can be. Anyway, he is certainly the Tahs best option at ten at this stage. I agree Horne is offering very little, however I think Carter has been pretty effective this year (in his own way, as an attack straightener, ball runner, tough defender) and I think it's a bit tough to knock him on his game on the weekend, he hardly received a ball in front of him. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been solid, Kingston outstanding, Foley good in patches but out of position. For mine I'd move Foley to 13, play AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15, give BKH a crack at wing and Horne a spell on the bench.

I also would keep McKibben at 9, a good goal-kicker is absolutely essential, and his service is quick and efficient.

Froggy

 

[fatprop]

Some quotes from Foley from the Terror

The congestion of the Australian conference has ensured the 10th-placed Waratahs haven't yet been cut adrift, but Foley is aware more of the same will lead to that fate.
"The bye comes at a good time for us. Some of the guys have played a lot of rugby as a result of injuries in the first five or six games, so it gives us a chance to freshen up," Foley said yesterday.

"It gives us a chance to say: "What did we learn out of that first part of the season?", and almost start the season again, with a better understanding of where we are strong and where we need to attend."
The sombre Waratahs arrived home from Hamilton yesterday well aware where things had unfolded in their 30-13 loss to the Chiefs.
"Throughout the game there were five times we visited their 22 and didn't come away with points. That's the story of the game," Foley said.

Despite using direct forward strength to get field position early, the Waratahs felt they erred by getting panicky and looking to score wide instead of through the pack.
Their decision to not press for a pushover try in the 40th minute in favour of a backline move was a notable example.

"While we want to play with the ball and we did against the Sharks, there is a time to understand the defence is flat and up and we have to be more direct. Some of the lateral stuff we did in their 22 compromised us," Foley said.
"The intent to play that we've always had has been there in the last two weeks, but some of the game management issues about what we do when we have a team under pressure wasn't good last night.
"I thought against the Sharks we were more direct, we sucked the defence in and then found space out wide. Last night we chased space out wide that wasn't there.
"If we win physical confrontations, get momentum and end with the ball at the right end of the field, we have to be patient."

 

[Braveheart81]

I just don't want to see another cross field kick until we are 30 points up with less than 15 minutes to go.

 

[fatprop]

I think Barnes had an absolute shocker, but hopefully it was a one-off, he showed last year (when fit) just how good he can be. Anyway, he is certainly the Tahs best option at ten at this stage. I agree Horne is offering very little, however I think Carter has been pretty effective this year (in his own way, as an attack straightener, ball runner, tough defender) and I think it's a bit tough to knock him on his game on the weekend, he hardly received a ball in front of him. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been solid, Kingston outstanding, Foley good in patches but out of position. For mine I'd move Foley to 13, play AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15, give BKH a crack at wing and Horne a spell on the bench.

I also would keep McKibben at 9, a good goal-kicker is absolutely essential, and his service is quick and efficient.

Froggy

Barnes struggled because his runners weren't giving him options, the Chiefs were moving up fast knocking them down, they tried to go around/lateral and got isolated.

As Foley said when they went direct and with support they were doing OK

 

[fatprop]

I just don't want to see another cross field kick until we are 30 points up with less than 15 minutes to go.

If the defending side is playing a tight, flat rush defense it is a absolutely viable option, and it doesn't have to get the try if it makes the defensive line spread to cover the option because that spreading creates options elsewhere

 

[Braveheart81]

I get the idea behind it.

I just thought that both times it was used it was about the lowest percentage option available.

A chip or a grubber or putting the ball up the jumper would have probably been just as likely to succeed.

 

[MrMouse]

Barnes struggled because his runners weren't giving him options, the Chiefs were moving up fast knocking them down, they tried to go around/lateral and got isolated.

As Foley said when they went direct and with support they were doing OK

Well to be fair, Carter presented a lot and got cut out with those lovely, loopy, intercept-inviting cutouts or the odd kick-pass. But certainly the line speed of the Chiefs' defence put them all off.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Why do the Tah's always sub 4 of their forwards per game? Normally starting early in the 2nd half? Is it a tradition?
Why do Horne need to make tackles equaling the amount a flanker normally makes? Are teams targeting a channel and getting away with wins week by week or is it just the run of the game and the ball following him sometimes?
6 Rounds and they have not work that one out yet.

 

[I like to watch]

If the defending side is playing a tight, flat rush defense it is a absolutely viable option, and it doesn't have to get the try if it makes the defensive line spread to cover the option because that spreading creates options elsewhere

There are a lot of sides doing it this year but they are rushing from 13 in, the winger always stays back, in the pocket waiting for it.I think there are better options available this year.

 

[Badger]

I thought you might need the lifeline number....

Nah, just replying to #1 Tah's comment about it being a respectable loss if a couple of calls went the Tahs way.

 

[I like to watch]

Barnes struggled because his runners weren't giving him options, the Chiefs were moving up fast knocking them down, they tried to go around/lateral and got isolated.

As Foley said when they went direct and with support they were doing OK

I haven't been to a game this year, but it appears on the tv that the backline don't have enough bodies in motion.
So that it is easy for the defence to read who is getting the pill.
Is this correct, sometimes or just way off the mark?

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Sometimes. One of bob dwyers big issues is realigning, and that's what the tahs aren't doing. First, even second phase ball, there are good back line plays but once we get past that it loses all shape.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Sometimes. One of bob dwyers big issues is realigning, and that's what the tahs aren't doing. First, even second phase ball, there are good back line plays but once we get past that it loses all shape.

I assumed that was because they were setting for a kick chase by that stage


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[suckerforred]

Why do the Tah's always sub 4 of their forwards per game? Normally starting early in the 2nd half? Is it a tradition?
Why do Horne need to make tackles equaling the amount a flanker normally makes? Are teams targeting a channel and getting away with wins week by week or is it just the run of the game and the ball following him sometimes?
6 Rounds and they have not work that one out yet.

Horne not tackling well this year so sides are targeting him because 12 has either been Tom Carter or Berick Barnes, both known for the defence.

But I am a Reds supporter so this might all be crap....

 

[Cave Dweller]

Horne not tackling well this year so sides are targeting him because 12 has either been Tom Carter or Berick Barnes, both known for the defence.

But I am a Reds supporter so this might all be crap....

lol But one got to wonder why not trying to stop the gap. You know you are being targeted there and you know that is the area costing you games.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Sometimes. One of bob dwyers big issues is realigning, and that's what the tahs aren't doing. First, even second phase ball, there are good back line plays but once we get past that it loses all shape.

Agree. They look England-esque of three years ago when the ball was recycled after a few phases and guys were wandering around like browns cows. There isn't enough organizing going on IMO.

 

[eastman]

lol But one got to wonder why not trying to stop the gap. You know you are being targeted there and you know that is the area costing you games.

I think Horne's defensive woes are being a tiny bit exaggerated- sure hes slipping off a couple when he races up but watching him he still makes a lot of dominant hits and leads the line up well. Unless your Robbie Fruean or the like you probably don't want to mark him