Waratahs v Reds Match Thread

[qwerty51]

Reds backline is going no where. Rob Horne.

 

[tranquility]

Having just re-watched the game, I am not terrible concerned with the performance the red produced. The forced attacked the ball hard, and Brown and Pocock in particular were outstanding at counter-rucking and pilfering the ball. The reds toiled hard, and adjusted on the run which are signs of a maturing side. It was clear pretty much straight away that the pack was unbalanced - but another good sign is that Ewen could see this abd made the substitutions required at almost the exact right time in all cases. He knows far better than anyone on this forum, that the equation was not quite right on sunday and he will fix it for this match.

Stray thoughts

Chambers, I don't know why but he just wasn't in the correct head space at all. Very unusual performance, I'm sure he will bounce back.
Davies, looked quite solid in defense and he was much more aggressive in general play. This has been a weakness of his game.
Horwill was immense. I think he has actually come back from injury a better player.
Greg Holmes looked very good when he came on, both at scrum time and around the park. I think we need at least one mature body in our front row.
Chibba Hanson looked very assured at the set piece when he came on, which is great news because we all know his has the X-factor on the park from his ARC days.
Quirky played his guts out and is a true-blue QLDer, expect to watch a lot more of him in the future. Unfortunatley he is not a 7 and never will be. He can't be dropped from the 22, but he shouldn't start at 7 either.
On the downside, Beau Robinson did some good things at times but didn't look properly conditioned and was off the pace at times. (REAL TROUBLE SPOT for the Reds, how did Jack Lam play for the Canes?)
Hynes has a very good game coming back from injury, he defended front on like a Demon. He is very important to our side.
I also thought Higgers looked GOOD and has to start next week.

For the Force
JOC (James O'Connor) was almost flawless. Same with Mr. Pocock.
Sharpe was very germanic at the lineout, and schooled the Reds locks.
Sheehan is a grub and should disappear from our fine game.
Shep looked good at times, same with Smith.
Brown was also good as mentioned earlier, and McCalman was one of the most physical blokes on the park.

 

[Red Rooster]

Just re-watched the game picking out some clips. Tahs D in the first 20 was outstanding and in this department, on second viewing, none was better than Mowen. He was ferocious around the ruck. Best forward on the park.

The defence was brilliant because the attack by Rebels was so bad - one out pick and drive is not difficult to defend against as it only covers about 10m of attacking width - keep talking the tahs up though

 

[Red Rooster]

Except that, as I posted elsewhere, the look on Ewan's face near the end of the game could have frozen molten lava. He didn't plan to play that badly and to leave it that close.

dont think any coach plans to play badly or tries to engineer close results

 

[TOCC]

i think the disrupted pre-season with the floods etc would have impacted on the 'fine-tuning' of the Reds performances as well, they had a had a 2 week period of cancelled trainings and having the grounds washed out, they apparently played well in Darwin and Cairns so its just a matter of clicking with blokes like A.Fainga'a and Hynes who didnt play any of the pre-season games.

 

[RugbyReg]

The defence was brilliant because the attack by Rebels was so bad - one out pick and drive is not difficult to defend against as it only covers about 10m of attacking width - keep talking the tahs up though

agree, it was all pretty simple stuff. I could've tackled the Rebels and we've seen my technique. I've read reports saying the Rebels played well in that opening stanza and controlled the ball well. In reality they looked lost and without a plan. All one out stuff. A very strange start to the season.

 

[Lee Grant]

On the downside, Beau Robinson did some good things at times but didn't look properly conditioned and was off the pace at times. (REAL TROUBLE SPOT for the Reds, how did Jack Lam play for the Canes?) .

Actually I thought that Jack had an average game for him.

But agree with most of the other stuff. Quirk is not a 7; more of a dogsbody backrower with a big engine. Mind you, I believe that the specialist 7 will become more and more marginalised the more that the release of the tackled player is enforced.

Referees started getting lax on this in the 1980s and, like many other things, the advent of professional rugby exacerbated the problem. Kiwi commentators were saying of McCaw: "What a great, great player" when he would tackle a guy roll over with him and stand up legs apart and tug the ball out without once letting go. Our guys did it too, but not as well.

It was just another example of the conventions of referees spoiling the game.

But I digress. Before all this happened starting in the 1980s defending teams used to drive past the ball more on their feet and earn turnovers doing what is now called counter-rucking. By the 2000s they were stopping more and more at the ball and why wouldn't they when they were allowed to hang on during and after the tackle?

Since the recent law crackdown scared defenders in fetching the ball as much as they did in the good old days, counter rucking is becoming more and more prevalent and the game is being played more on feet. Add to that the crackdown on staying on feet, in general, and you get a game where attackers are not afraid to attack and lose the ball in a tackle to fetchers breaking the law.

There will always be fetchers in pro rugby and fellows like Pocock and Brüssow will still thrive because they can do more than pilfer the ball. But their golden years of highway robbery are probably over.

 

[Groucho]

back to the game,

I will be interested to see how the reds change their game to protect Quade in attack. I am sure the tahs will have watched the force loose 5 (is there a better term for the 2nd row and back 3?) disrupt the reds attacking lines and P Waugh will be licking his lips to get into that channel and play that game. The real question is Does Link see it, and what can he do to counter it?

Main concern for the tahs is that someone (should be bugess) needs to make sure they sweep behind the defensive line properly - Carter, Horne, even barnes and turner, will be sprinting out of the line so we will be open to the chip over, so someone needs to be on their game. Perhaps the solution is play Beale at a short fullback and drop back a winger as well.

Think the game will be close (as these derbys always are) but think the tahs pack has enough over the reds to seal a tight win.

The problem with dropping a winger back on the rush defence is it leaves you a man short. If the attacking flyhalf can count then there is always the potential for overlaps.

Not that the Tahs play a rush defence.

 

[Richard D. James]

I think the elephant in the room for the Reds is QC (Quade Cooper)'s goal kicking... He doesn't have that natural kicking style that the Carters and Wilkos have (the superman thing doesn't help) and tends to hook the ball. I don't know if the Reds can rely on QC (Quade Cooper) kicking those clutch kicks.

The tahs have a similar, although slightly less acute, problem with Barnes. His kicking action is much smoother than Quades (and he seems to have modified it a bit based on the Rebels game) but I'm not entirely convinced he is a clutch kicker either.

Hopefully I'm proved wrong on both counts but atm JOC (James O'Connor) seems to be the best of the lot.

 

[RugbyReg]

if it comes down to a last minute kick you can bet your bottom dollar that Michael Harris will be on the field to take it.

 

[Richard D. James]

Yeah good point Reg, an astute buy from Link.

 

[I like to watch]

I have a feeling that Harris might be playing a lot more footie than most expect this year.
He is no mug, a great signing by the Reds

 

[Brumbies Guy]

if it comes down to a last minute kick you can bet your bottom dollar that Michael Harris will be on the field to take it.

like against the force?

 

[RugbyReg]

we didn't need the last minute kick to win did we?

 

[Richard D. James]

Just needed it to go out...

 

[qwerty51]

we didn't need the last minute kick to win did we?

I did, I needed the Reds to score one more point... Quade hits the uprights from practically in front.

 

[Ash]

I don't think that the Tahs will try to replicate the Force's gameplan, in terms of rushing up and disrupting the Reds (although they could certainly also try to slow down the Reds' ball when the opportunity is on - that also worked a treat for the Force). The Tahs backrow is very good, but it's a different balance from the Force's backrow (which also consists of McCalman at lock). I wouldn't put the Tahs' backrow in the same class as the Force's backrow for mobility, scavenging and slowing down ball. But the Force did show how to upset and unsettle the Reds (at least, in 37 degree heat).

One thing the Force did very well that the Tahs should emulate is that they hit and drove Cooper whenever he tried to run. McCalman in particular did this very well - first tackler held Cooper up, and McCalman on a few occasions came in and drove Cooper back very hard.

I'm not sure on the Reds' performance vs the Force. It looked very rusty, with their play very static and slow. On attack they need to work harder to get quick ball and get over the advantage line. Additionally, their backline moves were very out of kilter, and apart from one inside ball to Houston which the Force covered very well, I don't recall any inside balls which were a hallmark of the Reds' play last year. Inside balls and deeper second man plays are great ways to unlock defences used by the Force, but the Reds failed in both regards, the latter particularly because the Force did a great job of barely committing and fanning out in defence before rushing up. Additionally, the Force made their one on one tackles (an area they struggled in last year), which you have to expect the Tahs will do as well without problems.

On defence, the Reds line speed was again very woeful, often sitting back and letting the Force come to the advantage line. In particular, they let the Force get away with slow and sloppy ruck ball, something the Force punished the Reds for by moving up quickly. The Reds can't afford to do this to the Tahs, as their bigger backrow will love the room, and you will see more short passes between forwards and more offloads from the Tahs, which will create holes in the Reds.

How much of the Reds' performance can be attributed to the heat and humidity? Being at the ground, I can tell you it was awful, especially going from the air con in the members' bar to the hot and humid stadium. But the Force were in the same conditions, and picked a team and game plan better suited to the conditions, and put in a better performance. The Reds will need a massive improvement if they are to beat the Tahs this week.

You can be sure that if the Reds pick the same backrow as against the Force, they will struggle once again. They need Horwill back at lock for a more mobile backrower, and a scavenging threat somewhere in their pack to force the odd turnover or slow down opposition ball. The latter is at time underestimated to fans - but it was so painfully obvious how well the Force slowed down Reds ball, and how badly the Reds failed to do the same to the Force. The Reds need to try to disrupt Tahs rucks, which should put pressure on Burgess and hopefully force some poor decisions and erratic passes as he tries to clear the ball more quickly than is safe.

At scrum time, I am not particularly worried about Kepu, but am really worried about Benn Alexander off the bench. I thought that when Benn came off the bench he made an immediately visible difference to the Tahs' scrum. I am hopeful/glad they don't start with him.

I think the Tahs will likely win a close one, perhaps getting some breathing room after the 60 minute mark.

 

[Jets]

I think the elephant in the room for the Reds is QC (Quade Cooper)'s goal kicking... He doesn't have that natural kicking style that the Carters and Wilkos have (the superman thing doesn't help) and tends to hook the ball. I don't know if the Reds can rely on QC (Quade Cooper) kicking those clutch kicks.

The tahs have a similar, although slightly less acute, problem with Barnes. His kicking action is much smoother than Quades (and he seems to have modified it a bit based on the Rebels game) but I'm not entirely convinced he is a clutch kicker either.

Hopefully I'm proved wrong on both counts but atm JOC (James O'Connor) seems to be the best of the lot.

Except when he is converting his own try or taking a kick off after the opposition has just hit the lead?

 

[Scotty]

At scrum time, I am not particularly worried about Kepu, but am really worried about Benn Alexander off the bench. I thought that when Benn came off the bench he made an immediately visible difference to the Tahs' scrum. I am hopeful/glad they don't start with him.

Don't think you should be too worried about him for this game, Ash.

One thing the Force did very well that the Tahs should emulate is that they hit and drove Cooper whenever he tried to run. McCalman in particular did this very well - first tackler held Cooper up, and McCalman on a few occasions came in and drove Cooper back very hard.

A lot of this was because Cooper kept trying to step back inside, and then was too upright. He needed to step inside, then look for support rather than trying to beat another defender.

 

[Groucho]

Except when he is converting his own try or taking a kick off after the opposition has just hit the lead?

Cooper did the same on both counts, but without the excuse of having scored the try.