Waratahs v Lions - 2011R14

[cyclopath]

One of Carter/Cross has to go. They're decent individually, they just don't go together at all. Same style of play. Cross receives a lot of criticism but imo he's a very solid player. One of the strongest players in contact in the comp and can straighten a line up with good runs and put on dominant hits. I'd like to see him get a go at 12 instead of Carter. That lack of pace was really embarrassing. Not sure who to put at 13, Turner?

On my viewing tonight, I commented to Lindommer that Cross was unspectacular, but barely made a mistake, and did some good things. Carter did make some mistakes, and barely did a good thing. Cross was running one-off Barnes a lot too. I would keep Cross , of the two, at the moment.

 

[T.Rugby]

One of Carter/Cross has to go. They're decent individually, they just don't go together at all. Same style of play. Cross receives a lot of criticism but imo he's a very solid player. One of the strongest players in contact in the comp and can straighten a line up with good runs and put on dominant hits. I'd like to see him get a go at 12 instead of Carter. That lack of pace was really embarrassing. Not sure who to put at 13, Turner?

if your referring to the moment when there was a grubber from the lions to score, it was more of an error of judgement in defence than lack of pace. a player turning around and chasing the ball over a short distance is generally going to be beaten! i agree though, cross played a good game!

 

[FairWeatherAussie]

I'm not sure who was worse in the second half. The Waratah's, or the aussie commentators on the feed I was listening to. Kearns (I think) specifically. Moaning that he's sure they hadn't been told to play that game at half time, and especially asking why they weren't attaching 81st minute mark! They were up by 24 points at half time. They already had the bonus point. And they are the waratahs. He seriously doesn't think their half time instruction was to close down the game and just kick it away?

What's important is hopefully, especially after tonight, Hickey or someone in the coaching staff will realise that in Barnes and all, the tah's don't have the tactical kickers or chasers to play the game plan they are attempting to. The strategy is just not working. Some of the S.A. and northern teams can get away with it because they have the right personel, but waratahs dont...

Also, I really agree with the above comment on TC and Cross. Individually they both have their strengths and add to the waratahs back line. But they don't compliment each other and are cumbersome in attach when paired together.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Kingston. But 'snot gonna happen. Mantra will now be "don't lose"

 

[barbarian]

I can't say I agree with much of the criticism levelled on this thread tonight. Considering the last couple of weeks I think that was a good performance. The Lions are no mugs and weren't playing badly. The second half was evidence of that, they didn't stop trying for a second.

I had Alcock and Cross as the best on ground, with Beale close behind. I thought Barnes was good as well, and we certainly lost momentum with him not there. I also thought Jonker had a very good game. Some of the advantage calls were a little short, but he was very consistent and that is all that matters.

The only negative I would say is the Tahs had a chance to really make a statement in the second half that they can't be ruled out of the title race. Considering how open the comp is a 50 or 60 pointer would have turned heads. It wasn't to be sadly, but I will gladly take the 5 points.

 

[chequebalance]

I think the guy who put 50K on less then 53 points being scored, was the only person happy with the second half..

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

That Tahs performance really typified their season. The first 40 was full of creativity, good forward play and a bit of old fashioned daring. I don't know what Hickey did to them in the sheds at half time, because they were rubbish in the second. It's like they said, "righto boys, enough of that silly running rugby that got us the lead, back to boring everyone to death". I do not for the life of me understand why you wouldn't go out in the second half and really cut loose in that situation. I know they already had the bonus point and that the game was more or less won already, but these are the kinds of situations where you prepare for the tough games ahead by trying a few things in a match situation where if it doesn't quite come off it won't cost you the game.

Also, I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Luke Burgess' pass is not up to the required standard of an international halfback. It was at times terrible tonight.


I'm baffled. Flummoxed, even.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I should also add that Chris Alcock had a great game tonight. Should have been in the 22 all season. I was also stoked to see Hugh Perrett get a run. It's nice to see a guy who has slogged it out in club footy get a crack at the big time.

 

[Henry]

Agree re. Cross and Carter. the both of them in the same back line can be stiffling. They both definitely have strong positive attributes, but together... no. Jonker? (sp.) was ridiculous at times. Massive forward pass in the lead up to the Lions first try, as well as multiple suspect "advantage over" calls especially the Chariots knock on in the first half. ZERO advantage there.

But besides that, the first half was incredibly encouraging, it appeared as though they had truly listened to the famed 'fan forum'. They attacked with width and enterprise. (Apart from the box kicks, massive fluke it came off for Anesi IMO)

The second half seemed to be typical NSW and Wallaby rugby of the last few years. The old shut up shop routine. Except about 35mins too early. Australian super teams rarely "ram home" their first half leads. Typically they allow other sides easy meters and points if they happen to lead at half time. It has to stop if we are a chance at the RWC title in a few months. We just seem to lack the ruthlessness of some NZ teams. I believe this needs to change. And fast.

In saying that however it is great they got the 5points, and lets do it again next week!!!

Up the Tah's!!!

 

[Hawko]

The comments on Cross and Carter are a significant improvement on the Carter bashing that usually goes on, but still there haven't been too many Red supporter comments yet. We should not be greatly surprised that Carter and Cross play a similar style of game. Although Cross has played most of his career at 13, he was bought IMO to cover Carter at 12 after his excellent late-season play there in 2010. Horne was first choice 13 (his loss to injury was arguably worse for the Tahs than Mitchell) with BKH and Kingston to cover. BKH is just coming back from injury and someone on the forum mentioned that he is some way off match fitness (actually they said he was fat, but that seems a little unkind).

So Carter and Cross at 12 & 13 not gelling together is totally unsurprising. But what else could the selectors have done? There are only two alternatives, both incredibly risky, for a coaching team that is so conservative that Alan Jones looks like a leftie by comparison:

1. Bring Turner into 13. While not a total success earlier this might work much better against SA teams but then Kingston and Anesi have to play wing and bring in one of the juniors to the bench. Now Pakalani is coming back, I understand he played Shute yesterday, this might be a good option. When does Kingston have to leave for the U20's?
2. Put Kingston into 13, Pakalani to 11 and Anesi to the bench in cover. Kingston showed his lack of wing skills in defence tonight and would be more comfortable in 13. But there is no denying he is slight in stature and I fear for him if he gets caught in a Saffer ruck.

So I expect we will continue to make do with Carter/Cross because of the risk factor. Its hard to criticise because Super Rugby is a tough, unforgiving comp but personally I would start next week with Kingston at 13 and if it doesn't work bring Turner in one spot. Pakalani being fit and ready is crucial though for our long term backline improvement. Two easy tries tonight do not a winger make.

The Bulls/Sharks result tonight was worst possible for the Tahs two match campaign. The Sharks will be fighting to save their whole year next week and they have to play the Bulls again in the last round for a possible place in the finals. They will be desperate. Then the Bulls a week later, who will be both desperate and on a roll. This could get very ugly.

 

[Scotty]

Carter gets as much or more criticism from tahs supporters than reds or any other supporters.

 

[cyclopath]

That Tahs performance really typified their season. The first 40 was full of creativity, good forward play and a bit of old fashioned daring. I don't know what Hickey did to them in the sheds at half time, because they were rubbish in the second. It's like they said, "righto boys, enough of that silly running rugby that got us the lead, back to boring everyone to death". I do not for the life of me understand why you wouldn't go out in the second half and really cut loose in that situation. I know they already had the bonus point and that the game was more or less won already, but these are the kinds of situations where you prepare for the tough games ahead by trying a few things in a match situation where if it doesn't quite come off it won't cost you the game.

Also, I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Luke Burgess' pass is not up to the required standard of an international halfback. It was at times terrible tonight.


I'm baffled. Flummoxed, even.

The Tahs were trying to move it around in the second half - I have no problem with that. They executed it badly though. They weren't setting it up very well, instead the old sin of going wide before going forward, and a lot of the time they just dished it cross field but pretty static, and the Lions defence was good in the second half. In fact it wasn't bad all game, it's just that the Tahs unpicked it well in the first half with some clever kicks behind a fast advancing flat defence.
The effort from the Tahs was there, the intent even, but they fell away in the doing of it. In fairness, they had to make far more tackles in the second half as the Lions threw a lot at them, so that was probably a factor too. It doesn't alter the fact that a better team would have created some big headaches for them in the second half last night.

 

[Scarfman]

The Lions are mugs. Their defence in the first half was awful - very passive. They improved to about the level of an average SupeRugby side in the second half and we lost 7-0.

My wife doesn't watch much rugby but she watched the first half last night. Our conversation this morning:

Wife: So, did we smash them?
Scarf: No, we lost the second half 7-0
Wife: I knew it, all the teams we support do that.
Scarf: Who?
Wife: The Waratahs and the Wallabies. They start out full of energy then choke. There, put that on the Green Scarf!

 

[#1 Tah]

Did Ryan Cross throw 1 pass last night?

I think we have a new winner for the Tom Carter/Nathan Grey award

 

[mark_s]

The tahs gets as much or more criticism from tahs supporters than reds or any other supporters.

 

[Bruce Ross]

My wife doesn't watch much rugby but she watched the first half last night. Our conversation this morning:

Wife: So, did we smash them?
Scarf: No, we lost the second half 7-0
Wife: I knew it, all the teams we support do that.
Scarf: Who?
Wife: The Waratahs and the Wallabies. They start out full of energy then choke. There, put that on the Green Scarf!

Wise woman.

 

[wamberal]

Also, I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Luke Burgess' pass is not up to the required standard of an international halfback. It was at times terrible tonight.

Burgess was a whole lot better this week, he actually cleared the ball pretty quickly for a change. Okay, I agree that his pass is not all that wonderful, but it is obvious that doing things at speed makes a huge difference to the quality of the attacking play.

 

[qwerty51]

I don't think Kingston is up to Super level atm, he's getting bitched (lack of a better word) in contact.

 

[Sully]

I think the Tahs fans should be very happy with half a game like that! The team is trying to attack, but it's difficult to maintain it. As you get tired you slip into familiar patterns.

 

[DPK]

I don't think Kingston is up to Super level atm, he's getting bitched (lack of a better word) in contact.

He's still learning, I reckon. The Lions second half try was scored down his wing, that he came off to defend the inside player that was already half covered.

But I think it would take three or four games to get used to the physicality of Super Rugby.