Waratahs v Crusaders, round 15, Saturday 23 May @ Homebush

[Pfitzy]

Dare you to fit another "bitch" in there Pfitzy

Challenge accepted! I was only thinking that this afternoon. Check me out:

For years they've accused us of being soft, but when we finally stuck it up them, they just bitched like the bitchy little bitches they are. Its like Bitchy McBitchington and the Bitches bitched their bitchy way to Bitchville in the bitchmobile.

 

[Brumby Runner]

First things first: anyone who didn't like that win can fuck off.

Secondly: fucking suck it Ruchie. Finally you got another ref who wasn't willing to put up with your bullshit, your whining, and your headshaking as objective assessment, and you got a card you probably should have got for an attempted trip on Hooper earlier in the game.

Yeah you're a great player, but most Kiwis don't even like you when you're not wearing black. If you don't believe me, I'll have the nurse wheel Neemia Tialata in here for a good hard choking session.

In a way I feel sorry for the Cantabs - they've chained themselves to a fucking amateur like Blackadder who has run the joint down gradually over the last few years; a bloke who didn't even have a backup for Dagg going down in warm up. Jeez organise your shit already!

Both on the other hand: belted them. FUCKING. BELTED. THEM. And the whining from across the ditch, and from Kafer (thanks @fatprop - summed my feelings up perfectly) is music to my ears. "Oh sir!" they said "what about the tackles those big rough Aussies are putting on us?!!"

To quote the great Tana Umaga: utz not tuddlywunks!

If that was someone like Dominic Bird or Jordan Taufua putting that shit on, Kiwis would be going the thrashwank about how good their "hard men" are at the "niggle".

But push McCaw out of his obstructionist channel with a decent shoulder in the back and suddenly fucking lynch mobs pop up all over Canterbury, brother-cousins and sister-wives all, ready to try and find a tree suitably tall and strong enough to string Skelton up! That it was given as a penalty is a fucking joke to start with; Todd should have been done for changing his line to obstruct Skelton, before Skelton took matters into his own hands and snotted the geriatric bloke in #7.

And you watch: if they beat us in Bledisloe, every prick in a black jersey will be saying "Thet's whut ya git for doing thet to Ruchue, bro!" like its some kind of cosmic fucking karma cycle and not two completely different competitions.

For years they've accused us of being soft, but when we finally stuck it up them, they just bitched like the bitchy little bitches they are. Its like Bitchy McBitchington and the Bitches bitched their bitchy way to Bitchville.

FFS.

We all love a gracious winner Fitzy. The Crusaders have been the benchmark for most of the Super 14/15 period, and it's great to get a win over them - even better that it woill keep them out of the finals this year. They do seem to be going downhill under Blackadder, and I expect next year will be even tougher given the playing losses they are about to suffer.

And lest you be inclined to jump to conclusions, I tipped the Tahs to win and think it is in the best interests of Aus rugby that they did. Too many NZ sides potentially lining up in the finals this year. I am just thankful that we are starting to look like we might be past the Crusader era and that the Wallabies might just be in with a show against the ABs. At least that's what I am hoping from this result.

 

[Pfitzy]

We all love a gracious winner Fitzy.

Yep. Unfortunately being a Brumbies fan, you are unaccustomed to the sensation

The Crusaders have been the benchmark for most of the Super 14/15 period, and it's great to get a win over them - even better that it woill keep them out of the finals this year. They do seem to be going downhill under Blackadder, and I expect next year will be even tougher given the playing losses they are about to suffer.

Its a very gentle slope - and while they've been making finals, this isn't Carter and McCaw in their pomp or the recruitment goldmine you expect to see in Christchurch.

Their loss against the Reds in 2011 was a very tough season with the earthquake in February, and the fact they flew around the world a few times and still got denied a home final by the skinniest of margins says a lot about what could have been. They won the moral victory that season.

But the gel isn't there. The replacements aren't up to the quality, though they're handy players. When Slade went off, their attack went to lateral shit with Carter. Crotty wasn't his usual robust self and they couldn't quite get Nadolo into the game as often as they'd like, mainly due to rush defence.

But not for a minute am I 100% confident we've turned the corner and will kick arse the rest of the year. Even if we keep winning - and finish second because of it - there are going to be some teams coming hard at us, and our consistency is the issue.

 

[ChargerWA]

Yeah, 7 seasons for a mere 6 x SF & 2 x GF appearances, he's clearly shite.

With a complete All Black lite team, even good results must be viewed objectively. He's got the biggest leg up over any other coach due to the quality of the players at his disposal and has still failed to win it.

The few times when they were the best team but didn't win it largely comes back to paying for their slow starts to the season denying them a home final. Those slow starts must surely rest on his shoulders more than anyone else, because they have consistently done it and he hasn't managed to rectify it in 7 years.

 

[Gnostic]

With a complete All Black lite team, even good results must be viewed objectively. He's got the biggest leg up over any other coach due to the quality of the players at his disposal and has still failed to win it.

The few times when they were the best team but didn't win it largely comes back to paying for their slow starts to the season denying them a home final. Those slow starts must surely rest on his shoulders more than anyone else, because they have consistently done it and he hasn't managed to rectify it in 7 years.

Do you think sabaticals and rostered lay off periods for key players like Carter, Reid and McCaw would have anything to do with the slow starts? Even when they come back it takes a couple of weeks usually for them to get up to game speed as individuals let alone re-establishing combinations.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Blackadder has made the most of the talent he had available with the mode of play he has brought to the side, but I do think he and other NZ coaches are impacted by external policy factors. Its how they recruit to cover those known loses that allows them to cover effectively.

 

[Dan54]

Actually Charger, no Crusader coach has rectified their slow start whether they have won comp or not. Mind you he on hiding to nothing with the results that they historically had, he would was never going to get credit even if they had won 4-5 times. I not sure if he good or bad, but I imagine someone with more nous than me will figure it out soon.
Anyway probably Saders in NZ are equivalent to the Tahs in Aus, no one outside their area is too sad about a decline which was always going to come. When you have a top team eventually you stop attracting top young players as they head to other areas to get game time, hence strengthing other areas.

 

[Dan54]

Also meant to add,I suspect with Dagg's injury (I assume it his calf again), he may really struggle to get enough rugby to make WC!!

 

[cyclopath]

Actually Charger, no Crusader coach has rectified their slow start whether they have won comp or not. Mind you he on hiding to nothing with the results that they historically had, he would was never going to get credit even if they had won 4-5 times. I not sure if he good or bad, but I imagine someone with more nous than me will figure it out soon.
Anyway probably Saders in NZ are equivalent to the Tahs in Aus, no one outside their area is too sad about a decline which was always going to come. When you have a top team eventually you stop attracting top young players as they head to other areas to get game time, hence strengthing other areas.

Most other fans here were pretty happy the Tahs had their decline for years before, let alone possibly one year after a title. So far, we've had a blip!!

 

[Pfitzy]

Yes, I much prefer the Reds' decline, though its kind of getting embarrassing now.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Dare you to fit another "bitch" in there Pfitzy

But why would @Pfitzy talk about James O'Connor in a thread about Tahs v Crusaders?

 

[A mutterer]

Yep. Unfortunately being a Brumbies fan, you are unaccustomed to the sensation




Its a very gentle slope - and while they've been making finals, this isn't Carter and McCaw in their pomp or the recruitment goldmine you expect to see in Christchurch.

Their loss against the Reds in 2011 was a very tough season with the earthquake in February, and the fact they flew around the world a few times and still got denied a home final by the skinniest of margins says a lot about what could have been. They won the moral victory that season.

But the gel isn't there. The replacements aren't up to the quality, though they're handy players. When Slade went off, their attack went to lateral shit with Carter. Crotty wasn't his usual robust self and they couldn't quite get Nadolo into the game as often as they'd like, mainly due to rush defence.

But not for a minute am I 100% confident we've turned the corner and will kick arse the rest of the year. Even if we keep winning - and finish second because of it - there are going to be some teams coming hard at us, and our consistency is the issue.

the crusaders are like the tahs of 13 - some great rugby under their belts, but not clicking when they needed to, and fell short because of this.

the tahs on the other hand, well what i like about them at the moment i also hate - especially after having no finger nails left after last night. we are not playing our best rugby, but we are still grinding out results. this is a critical component of all champion teams, across all codes.

 

[Pfitzy]

Yeah well, except the fucking Force

 

[Tahspark]

He hit peak retard when he pointed out Whitelock illegally killed a Waratah maul (his words about Whitelock's entry point) then wanked supreme about what great Crusader play it was. It's one or the other, Kafe.

Kafe's commentary is "counter-balanced" by Kearns who is a fan with a mike & who fails to impart any expert analysis or even attempt non-biased observations.

 

[fatprop]

On Skelton clattering McCaw

What should he have done? Waved his hands in the air?

McCaw was in the way, essentially blocking access to the ball in general play. It is something Kiwi sides consciously do to create holes for the ball runner in broken play. He doesn't have to move, but the "blocker" does deserve to take removal.

On Latu & Skelton's lifting. These are really hard, the combination is the problem, the slight lift de-stabilizes the ball carrier and makes the second units effort far more effective than he would be expecting. Latu's individual lift may or may not have been dangerous (we don't do know how he would have put him down) But adding Skelton's "effort" and it was bad.

But worth more time? I don't know

 

[cyclopath]

Kafe's commentary is "counter-balanced" by Kearns who is a fan with a mike & who fails to impart any expert analysis or even attempt non-biased observations.

No, two people doing a bad job doesn't balance anything, if anything it multiplies the aggravation. Besides, Kafer is allegedly the clever one, there to provide insightful analysis.
And why do people quote "Kearns" back at me as if I've said he was good?? It's just a strawman.

 

[Gagger]

To FPs point - anyone else notice how McCaw and Whitelock stayed down as if they'd taken a bullet to the cerebral cortex, and then were fine?

Re Kearns - for all his faults he doesn't death ride other Aussie teams

 

[da_grubster]

On Skelton clattering McCaw

What should he have done? Waved his hands in the air?

McCaw was in the way, essentially blocking access to the ball in general play. It is something Kiwi sides consciously do to create holes for the ball runner in broken play. He doesn't have to move, but the "blocker" does deserve to take removal.

On Latu & Skelton's lifting. These are really hard, the combination is the problem, the slight lift de-stabilizes the ball carrier and makes the second units effort far more effective than he would be expecting. Latu's individual lift may or may not have been dangerous (we don't do know how he would have put him down) But adding Skelton's "effort" and it was bad.

But worth more time? I don't know

It's the closest act to umaga/Saint Kevin on bod I have seen which people still scream blue murder about today and the game is far stricter on this today. Not should have gone.

Didn't really want to come into this thread for parochial Aussie tub thumping and read pfitz first up. At least I was prepared for it

Blackadder has had the blessing/handicap of senior abs treating super rugby asprep for the intl season and is a main reason for the slow starts.

He could have had 2 titles if it wasn't for a poor ref call and an earthquake.

Still, he has his limitations, poor backlie recruitment and selection. Gameplan not moving forward to name a few

 

[cyclopath]

It's the closest act to umaga/Saint Kevin on bod I have seen which people still scream blue murder about today and the game is far stricter on this today. Not should have gone.

Didn't really want to come into this thread for parochial Aussie tub thumping and read pfitz first up. At least I was prepared for it

Blackadder has had the blessing/handicap of senior abs treating super rugby asprep for the intl season and is a main reason for the slow starts.

He could have had 2 titles if it wasn't for a poor ref call and an earthquake.

Still, he has his limitations, poor backlie recruitment and selection. Gameplan not moving forward to name a few

You know what you're gonna get with Pfitzy!
I'm not sure how it can be defended really, except to say when 2 get involved, it become far less predictable, which I'm sure will be aired by legal eagles at their hearings to attempt to mitigate things. I'm not sure it should. It was after the whistle, thus unnecessary, and as you say, lifting these days is just crazy. I was surprised at the time that both didn't get carded, and I'll be a bit surprised if they don't both cop a week or two.
I had no problem with the other incidents in the match, as Matt Todd said, two teams were going hard at each other.

 

[fatprop]

It's the closest act to umaga/Saint Kevin on bod I have seen which people still scream blue murder about today and the game is far stricter on this today. Not should have gone.

Didn't really want to come into this thread for parochial Aussie tub thumping and read pfitz first up. At least I was prepared for it

Blackadder has had the blessing/handicap of senior abs treating super rugby asprep for the intl season and is a main reason for the slow starts.

He could have had 2 titles if it wasn't for a poor ref call and an earthquake.

Still, he has his limitations, poor backlie recruitment and selection. Gameplan not moving forward to name a few

Yeah, and the plethora of reflex coat hangers we see. They are illegal accidents, punishable - sure, but essentially accidents, not conscious moments of malice and thuggary

 

[da_grubster]

Didn't see the other two incidents so can't comment. Personally I am glad the abs in the crusaders get a couple of weeks extra rest this year.

the extended super season puts us all at a disadvantage as it is virtually a non stop season of super rugby/rc and a month before the rwc starts