Waratahs 2021

[Rugbynutter39]

Going to go to tahs vs reds game next Saturday for as I said on another thread with top 4 sides playing good footy at least guaranteed of seeing one oz side play well if tahs playing (just unlikely to be the tahs of course)

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Well it is no longer here so I am guessing it failed on some sort of level otherwise it would be continuing .
Also do you think those players still would of emerged if they were playing in there relevant club competitions? I guess we will never know .

Either way discussing the pros and cons of NRC was never the intention of my original post .
NRC or no NRC super rugby players should have to prove themselves somewhere outside of colts and junior representative teams in order to play super rugby .
Note: there will be the occasional exception - Kurtley Beale , James Oconner , David Pocock to name a few

RA don't have Fox paying for the base costs of the structure. That's it. As a development tool is been massively successful.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

RA don't have Fox paying for the base costs of the structure. That's it. As a development tool is been massively successful.

We just need to recreate something like the nrc but get nsw this time on board and maybe consider something slightly different to get more club support

 

[Adam84]

Well it is no longer here so I am guessing it failed on some sort of level otherwise it would be continuing .
Also do you think those players still would of emerged if they were playing in there relevant club competitions? I guess we will never know .

Either way discussing the pros and cons of NRC was never the intention of my original post .
NRC or no NRC super rugby players should have to prove themselves somewhere outside of colts and junior representative teams in order to play super rugby .
Note: there will be the occasional exception - Kurtley Beale , James Oconner , David Pocock to name a few

Plenty of the current reds squad earned contracts on the back of NRC form, Hunter Paisami, Filipo Daugunu and Brendan Paenga Amosa are the more notable ones.

But it wasn’t the talent identification which was of greatest value, it was the combinations built and use of the NRC as a development tool which was of most value. 16 or 17 of the players who featured in the Brumbies vs Reds last week also played in the Vikings vs Queenland Country NRC Grand Final in 2017.

These guys have been playing together for years before they are regular Super Rugby starters, that’s why the transition is less disruptive in those teams when new players come in.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

We just need to recreate something like the nrc but get nsw this time on board and maybe consider something slightly different to get more club support

Which is why I suggested something like a rep structure. With teams selected from club play.

 

[ShuteFan1]

RA don't have Fox paying for the base costs of the structure. That's it. As a development tool is been massively successful.

So just to confirm the Nrc no longer exists because it wasn't financially viable - thus a failure of a competition

 

[Slim 293]

So just to confirm the Nrc no longer exists because it wasn't financially viable - thus a failure of a competition

No, your argument fails to reach the conclusion.

D-

Please see me after class.........

 

[Adam84]

So just to confirm the Nrc no longer exists because it wasn't financially viable - thus a failure of a competition

Well no it didn’t fail since the NRCs objective was to bridge the gap between club rugby and super rugby, and it achieved that objective and was a success. NRC died with Castle not simply because of financials, but because of politics especially from Shute Shield representatives.

 

[ShuteFan1]

No, your argument fails to reach the conclusion.

D-

Please see me after class...

I guess I do need to stay behind after class because I am a aittle confused.
So the NRC was a success financially , in terms of player development and in creating a new competition that got the rugby public engaged however they just chose not to continue it . Do I have it right now ?

And these players who developed so rapidly through the NRC lets take Will Harrision for example would not of been able to develop playing a full year of Shute Shield .

Ok im sold .
Bring back the NRC!!

 

[ShuteFan1]

Anyway NSW rugby thread so lets get back onto that .

In hindsight if NSW had taken the NRC seriously like Qld we might be on top of Super Rugby Australia.

However for now lets pick the best players available for our state rather than kids who could be the best possible players.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

So just to confirm the Nrc no longer exists because it wasn't financially viable - thus a failure of a competition

Some interesting mental gymnastics your doing there. While the NRC was cost neutral thanks to the Fox deal which for the record meant that it was viable this little thinking called the the global Covid pandemic kind of threw the spanner in the works. RA like literally every other sports body in the country had to tighten it's financial purse strings. A strong argument for it's continuation could have been made in circumstances otherwise even if it ended up costing RA $1.5m a season. And the reason why that argument could be made is literally in front of you on TV. Much of the young talent on display in Super Rugby Au are direct beneficiaries of the structure.

Unfortunately, now that it seems to be no more. We have club Rugby. Which having watched the ACC today is a noticeable step below and even more so that of Super Rugby Au. So unless the clubs manage to somehow devise a way of becoming HP semi-pro organisations we are now left in a lesser position developmental wise than we were.

 

[wamberal]

The problem is impossible to solve. We need district rugby clubs in all our cities. District clubs are semi-professional at best, they rely to a significant extent on voluntary workers and financial input from their supporters. There must be the best part of 100 of these entities, and they are an essential pathway for players and supporters of our game. People talk about the "grassroots". Well, if the district clubs are not the grass roots, I am buggered if I know what they are.

Yes, it is a helluva jump for players to make in stepping up from district rugby to the Soup. The challenge is that any intermediary competition (like the much lamented ARC, or the more recent NRC) has the potential to siphon resources away from the district clubs.

Any attempt to siphon off some of the district clubs into a national club competition would have the same effect. The weaker district clubs would get weaker, the strong would get stronger.

Sorry, I cannot think of any solutions.

 

[Kenny Powers]

So whose responsibility was it to support the NRC in Sydney the Shute Shield clubs primarily volunteer run or NSW Rugby Union with well paid professional managers, recruitment officers, development pathways and coaches

Of the six NRC seasons a Sydney team took out the wooden spoon four times.

Even more reason for Roger Davis to resign knowing he has left the game in a worse state than when he arrived.

 

[ShuteFan1]

Some interesting mental gymnastics your doing there. While the NRC was cost neutral thanks to the Fox deal which for the record meant that it was viable this little thinking called the the global Covid pandemic kind of threw the spanner in the works. RA like literally every other sports body in the country had to tighten it's financial purse strings. A strong argument for it's continuation could have been made in circumstances otherwise even if it ended up costing RA $1.5m a season. And the reason why that argument could be made is literally in front of you on TV. Much of the young talent on display in Super Rugby Au are direct beneficiaries of the structure.

Unfortunately, now that it seems to be no more. We have club Rugby. Which having watched the ACC today is a noticeable step below and even more so that of Super Rugby Au. So unless the clubs manage to somehow devise a way of becoming HP semi-pro organisations we are now left in a lesser position developmental wise than we were.

I will leave the NRC argument alone , if people feel it was a success great. But not having a financially sustainable model plus having no supporter engagement hardly sounds like a successful competition . "Much of the young talent on display in Super Rugby Au are direct beneficiaries of the structure" - just confirming they wouldn't of been successful without the NRC ?

In terms of gap in standard between Super rugby and Shute Shield . Is it possible that the entire standard of rugby in Aus has dropped? In last years Semi Finals we had current at the time guys who had played Super Rugby player
Gordon - Charlie Abel, Joey Walton , Jack Dempsey , Harrison Goddard , Rodney Iona, Tuatai Lasi
Eastwood - Ed Craig , Mark N (Nawaqanitawase),
Easts - Alex Newsome , Rob Leota , Charlie Gamble , Lalaki Foketi, Ryan McCauley,
Norths - Hugh Sinclaire

Did any of these guys stand out and dominate the competition ? Sure Gordon win maybe because they had more but did the individuals really dominate?
What about the times when "average" ( not being rude) super rugby players like a Daniel Halengahu /Tim Donnelly/ Tom Kingston / younger Dave Horwitz would come back and dominate the competition?
Its seems to me the gap between super rugby and shute shield is closer than ever - unfortunately not in a good way.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The problem is impossible to solve. We need district rugby clubs in all our cities. District clubs are semi-professional at best, they rely to a significant extent on voluntary workers and financial input from their supporters. There must be the best part of 100 of these entities, and they are an essential pathway for players and supporters of our game. People talk about the "grassroots". Well, if the district clubs are not the grass roots, I am buggered if I know what they are.

Yes, it is a helluva jump for players to make in stepping up from district rugby to the Soup. The challenge is that any intermediary competition (like the much lamented ARC, or the more recent NRC) has the potential to siphon resources away from the district clubs.

Any attempt to siphon off some of the district clubs into a national club competition would have the same effect. The weaker district clubs would get weaker, the strong would get stronger.

Sorry, I cannot think of any solutions.

An annual representative competition selecting players directly from club play. Meaning they would have to have played at least some club Rugby that season. In terms of Sydney it could be split using the Harbour. For Brisbane the river. And a team from each of Canberra, Melbourne and Perth. Played in the post season. And operated by the respective competitions. So the two teams from Sydney would be selected and run by the SRU. As would the two from Brisbane from the clubs that compete in in the Hospital Cup and so on.

No Tahs, Reds, Brums and so on involvement at least not directly. Not perfect but certainly something that would offer a higher level of competition than Club Rugby which having watched the ACC yesterday just won't cut it from a HP perspective.

 

[Adam84]

I will leave the NRC argument alone , if people feel it was a success great. But not having a financially sustainable model plus having no supporter engagement hardly sounds like a successful competition . "Much of the young talent on display in Super Rugby Au are direct beneficiaries of the structure" - just confirming they wouldn't of been successful without the NRC ?

In terms of gap in standard between Super rugby and Shute Shield . Is it possible that the entire standard of rugby in Aus has dropped? In last years Semi Finals we had current at the time guys who had played Super Rugby player
Gordon - Charlie Abel, Joey Walton , Jack Dempsey , Harrison Goddard , Rodney Iona, Tuatai Lasi
Eastwood - Ed Craig , Mark N (Nawaqanitawase),
Easts - Alex Newsome , Rob Leota , Charlie Gamble , Lalaki Foketi, Ryan McCauley,
Norths - Hugh Sinclaire

Did any of these guys stand out and dominate the competition ? Sure Gordon win maybe because they had more but did the individuals really dominate?
What about the times when "average" ( not being rude) super rugby players like a Daniel Halengahu /Tim Donnelly/ Tom Kingston / younger Dave Horwitz would come back and dominate the competition?
Its seems to me the gap between super rugby and shute shield is closer than ever - unfortunately not in a good way.

Absolutely it was a success from the Reds and Brumbies perspective and Brad Thorn even said so last night, fortunately for them the governing body gave it the respect it deserved, and importantly the clubs were on board with the concept as well.

 

[TSR]

Firstly . First post . So apologies if iv missed anything but I’m a big Shute shield fan and with nothing to do in 2020 I watched lots .
I believe these players were best in their position last year or have at least dominated Shute shield in periods .
Do you think the tahs backs are clearly better ?

9.Harrison Goddard Vs Jack Grant
10.Angus sinclaire /Rodney Iona Vs Will Harrison
11.James Turner vs James Ramm
12.Enoka Muliufu vs Tepai Morea
13.Tautalatasi Tasi vs Alex Newsome
14. Tyson Davis vs Jack Maddocks
15.Tim Clements Vs Mark Nawanqanitwaswe

9.I reckon Goddard is more complete player than grant and controls a game better . Shute 1

10.Sinclaire / Iona are definitely better controllers than Harrison at this stage - although Harrison clearly superior running game. Even

11 . Everyone will say Ramm better but why ? Turner has been leading try scorer in last 2 years in a weak team . Ramm got picked from obscurity and to be fair was good last year but struggling this year. I’l say even Shute 1 Tahs 0

12 . Enoka Muliufu is Tepai just with a bigger rugby pedigree and more powerful . Would be lot cheaper too. Shute 2 tahs 0

13.Someone tell me what Newsome is good at ? Great solid player . But Lasi is bloody hard to tackle , physical and has X factor . I’ll take Lasi shute 3 tahs 0

14.Maddocks clear winner . Although clearly erratic. Shute 3 tahs 1

15. Tim Clements has been best 15 last 2 years in Shute . Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) is amazing in air and can offload but can’t defend or take contact . I’ll take proven player Shute 4 Tahs 1


Sure lot of the tahs guys have a “upside “ but what about picking the best players now ?

Obviously in perfect world you would mix and match . But I just don’t see why these tahs players have been chosen over proven Shute Shield performers

I can’t comment on the validity of your assessments, but welcome. Good first post in terms of discussion. I’ll be interested to see others views on your comparisons.

 

[The Nomad]

The ACC is always a bit of a shit game , not much more than a glorified preseason trial. It’s a pity it’s not played directly after the respective finals with the same team lineups and benefit of a season of rugby behind them.

The rugby at the back end of QPR and SS was quite good to watch.

 

[ShuteFan1]

Absolutely it was a success from the Reds and Brumbies perspective and Brad Thorn even said so last night, fortunately for them the governing body gave it the respect it deserved, and importantly the clubs were on board with the concept as well.

Agree it was a success for them in developing players but the competition was not.
Its like creating a restaurant and you have the best meals in the world. Thats great but if you can't afford the food or people arent buying the meals the restaurant is not a success

 

[ShuteFan1]

The ACC is always a bit of a shit game , not much more than a glorified preseason trial. It’s a pity it’s not played directly after the respective finals with the same team lineups and benefit of a season of rugby behind them.

The rugby at the back end of QPR and SS was quite good to watch.

Agree Gordon were missing from grand Final Team 1,2,8,9,10,11,12,13,14. And its first game of the year. Was never going to be a spectacle