Waratahs 2021

[Blackadder]

Right from the botched kick off (was that Penney's fault, incidentally?) most of the team were visibly not up to standard. Raw talent. Hah. Most of them are second-raters, frankly.

BTW, who bought Moeroa?

Tim Rapp

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Or. the younger guys are struggling by not having senior quality guys around them to pass on experience and set standards

I think they made a mistake getting rid of hunt as his experience to me sorely missing in a very green backline. As i am assuming they could have got him at lower sign on fee given where at. I would not have had a problem getting rid of hunt if they replaced him with better talent - but they didn’t.

 

[7137]

I think they made a mistake getting rid of hunt as his experience to me sorely missing in a very green backline. As i am assuming they could have got him at lower sign on fee given where at. I would not have had a problem getting rid of hunt if they replaced him with better talent - but they didn’t.

Penney wanted Hunt. Rapp said no. I guess his twisted thinking was that he was paying a fortune for his Newington boy, so he would try wedge Penney into using him.

For the money they are paying for Moeroa he should be of a quality that is getting selected for Wallaby teams. Not struggling to make it into the Tah 23 when everyone is fit...

 

[7137]

I guess if I have to find one positive out of last night. Despite having the face of a chubby 8 year old, Darcy Breen appeared to scrum well through my beer induced haze. There might be something there to work with.

 

[Quick Hands]

Right from the botched kick off (was that Penney's fault, incidentally?) most of the team were visibly not up to standard. Raw talent. Hah. Most of them are second-raters, frankly.

BTW, who bought Moeroa?

Of course it's not Penney's fault, it's not Gibson's fault, it's not the fault of the NSW/Waratahs player development system, it's not the fault of those on the NSWRU who appointed Gibson and Penney, it's not the fault of the NSWRU who have appointed those who have overseen player and coach development and it's certainly not the fault of Chairman Davis and the board. It's all just cosmically ordained by forces unknown and none of the above have any control over these events.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well moeroa needs to go if paying big money. And good news is we are blooding younger players as part of rebuilding. Bad news is we need more quality but if we could recruit say 3 quality and experienced players things might not be so bad but the reality is even if tahs have the money competing for experienced players with money overseas clubs paying and ability to even compete with other super rugby franchises for talent given tahs not seen as favoured destination will be challenging.

We need to see tahs back as one of top sides as too big and important a market for rugby in oz to continue on as is.

 

[Rob42]

Of course it's not Penney's fault, it's not Gibson's fault, it's not the fault of the NSW/Waratahs player development system, it's not the fault of those on the NSWRU who appointed Gibson and Penney, it's not the fault of the NSWRU who have appointed those who have overseen player and coach development and it's certainly not the fault of Chairman Davis and the board. It's all just cosmically ordained by forces unknown and none of the above have any control over these events.

Huh? Who's saying that? I think most people are happy to say there's plenty of blame to go around. Personally, I'd start with the board, and work my way down from there.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Well moeroa needs to go if paying big money. And good news is we are blooding younger players as part of rebuilding. Bad news is we need more quality but if we could recruit say 3 quality and experienced players things might not be so bad but the reality is even if tahs have the money competing for experienced players with money overseas clubs paying and ability to even compete with other super rugby franchises for talent given tahs not seen as favoured destination will be challenging.

We need to see tahs back as one of top sides as too big and important a market for rugby in oz to continue on as is.

They are severely lacking anyone willing to take a leadership role on the field. The hole Hooper has left has been staggering. There has also been a really poor management of the organisation that has forced it to have to cut back on talent spend. Which must be addressed.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Huh? Who's saying that? I think most people are happy to say there's plenty of blame to go around. Personally, I'd start with the board, and work my way down from there.

The question of why we have to operate 20% under the cap even though there's a compensation deal in place while the SFS is redeveloped has to be answered. All while of direct competitors are operating at 100%. That's a back of house issue. Poor management by the key decision makers on the corporate side of the operations.

Penney is struggling to get anything out of the squad. To instil anyone with the sense of personal responsibility to step up and fill in the void left by Hooper and Simmons. Which is disappointing for a coach that made his name on bringing forward young talent. Of which the Tahs have in spades. But, he's still having to deal with the decisions of the likes of Rapp in terms of recruitment and retention. Which has become clear did a poor job. I think Penney needs to find himself a new attack coach and skills coach. A class lock. And someone in the backs who can marshal the defensive line.

 

[I like to watch]

Don’t think these figures are correct, number of full time members was cut under the new CBA, and part time contracts were introduced. Reds have 32 full time and 5 part time players not he EDS.

It has also been said elsewhere that the $1million underspend is an exaggeration

If it’s not an exaggeration, how the phuck have they spent the money?
the ball boys are adding more value than 1/2 this squad

 

[7137]

So. Who are the realistic recruiting options? We don’t have a lot to spend and we need experience in the right places. Assuming we can only afford so much, these are my three.

Paul Alo Emile (if not him, find us a Georgian from a farm in the hills who pulls his own plough)
Sam Carter. I would not expect him to be on the highest of wages like Coleman, but he’s not too old and very experienced.
Tom English. Very underrated player in my opinion with a good head to guide the young backs.

Also, let’s get Dave Dennis back in the scene. At 35 he still has something to offer.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

So. Who are the realistic recruiting options? We don’t have a lot to spend and we need experience in the right places. Assuming we can only afford so much, these are my three.

Paul Alo Emile (if not him, find us a Georgian from a farm in the hills who pulls his own plough)
Sam Carter. I would not expect him to be on the highest of wages like Coleman, but he’s not too old and very experienced.
Tom English. Very underrated player in my opinion with a good head to guide the young backs.

Also, let’s get Dave Dennis back in the scene. At 35 he still has something to offer.

If that is best we can do I would almost rather we take the best in the best young talent instead and take a hit on performance for a few years as I can't see any of those players really offering much step change in improvement. Ok maybe could be convinced if could get Tom English and Sam Carter as at least mid range super rugby standard players (suggest they have already peaked so not much upside) on the cheap but not sure either going to be rushing home from good overseas coin to take a lower wage with the Tahs at this point.

 

[7137]

If that is best we can do I would almost rather we best in the best young talent instead and take a hit on performance for a few years as I can't see any of those players really offering much step change in improvement. Ok maybe could be convinced if could get Tom English and Sam Carter as at least mid range super rugby standard players (suggest they have already peaked so not much upside) on the cheap but not sure either going to be rushing home from good overseas coin to take a lower wage with the Tahs at this point.

We need to face facts. The Coleman and Kerevi’s of the world are not going to touch the Tahs. The future is the young guys but if we don’t get them some on field help and guidance then they will be ruined before they are ready and or we will lose them. They aren’t going to all stay happy at the Tahs getting thumped every week.

 

[The Nomad]

Well moeroa needs to go if paying big money. And good news is we are blooding younger players as part of rebuilding. Bad news is we need more quality but if we could recruit say 3 quality and experienced players things might not be so bad but the reality is even if tahs have the money competing for experienced players with money overseas clubs paying and ability to even compete with other super rugby franchises for talent given tahs not seen as favoured destination will be challenging.

We need to see tahs back as one of top sides as too big and important a market for rugby in oz to continue on as is.

Yeah , Stan/Nine won’t be seeing value if the biggest market audience is switching off . Not good for Australian rugby in general.

 

[Blackadder]

The problem is Penney is being paid the big bucks to help bring the kids through but he is failing. The team looks lost in both attack and defence. They get into the opposition's half and look lost and pedestrian in attack. There is no game plan.

Simple skills are missing, basics are missing. Lack of leadership, lack of heart.

The youngsters from last year have gone backwards.

 

[Micheal]

I think that's a good point -- the Kerevi's and Skelton's of the world won't come back until we have a decent squad that they feel that they can take to the next level. At this stage, Kerevi and Skelton wouldn't change the team much.

I'd target building out our forward pack for 2022, before moving to our backline in 2023. Looking at other squads, I'd target the below players who's contract is up at the end of 2021 (according to Page 1 of 2021 team threads, could be out of date):

• Isi Naisarani
• Ross Haylett-Petty
• Trevor Hosea
• Richard Hardwick
• Sitalecki Timani
• Matt Phillip
• Brand Paenga Amosa
• Angus Scott Young
• Nick Frost
• Tom Cusack

I'd likewise look to pick up these chaps if I could:

• Bryce Hegarty - off contract at the end of the year
• Tom Wright - off contract at the end of the year

From the overseas contingents, you could target:

• James Hansen - off contract
• Curtis Rona
• Dave Dennis
• Tapuai
• Curtis Rona
• Paul Alo-Emile
• Peter Betham
• Dave Dennis
• Hugh Pyle
• Kane Douglas
• Curtis Browning
• Sam Talakai
• Sam Jeffries
• Harry Hockings
• Jed Holloway

From there, we can look for stars.

 

[7137]

I think that's a good point -- the Kerevi's and Skelton's of the world won't come back until we have a decent squad that they feel that they can take to the next level. At this stage, Kerevi and Skelton wouldn't change the team much.

I'd target building out our forward pack for 2022, before moving to our backline in 2023. Looking at other squads, I'd target the below players who's contract is up at the end of 2021 (according to Page 1 of 2021 team threads, could be out of date):

• Isi Naisarani
• Ross Haylett-Petty
• Trevor Hosea
• Richard Hardwick
• Sitalecki Timani
• Matt Phillip
• Brand Paenga Amosa
• Angus Scott Young
• Nick Frost
• Tom Cusack

I'd likewise look to pick up these chaps if I could:

• Bryce Hegarty - off contract at the end of the year
• Tom Wright - off contract at the end of the year

From the overseas contingents, you could target:

• James Hansen - off contract
• Curtis Rona
• Dave Dennis
• Tapuai
• Curtis Rona
• Paul Alo-Emile
• Peter Betham
• Dave Dennis
• Hugh Pyle
• Kane Douglas
• Curtis Browning
• Sam Talakai
• Sam Jeffries
• Harry Hockings
• Jed Holloway

From there, we can look for stars.

Phillip would be a great get. But doesn’t he have an agreement to return to the Rebels?

 

[ShuteFan1]

Firstly . First post . So apologies if iv missed anything but I’m a big Shute shield fan and with nothing to do in 2020 I watched lots .
I believe these players were best in their position last year or have at least dominated Shute shield in periods .
Do you think the tahs backs are clearly better ?

9.Harrison Goddard Vs Jack Grant
10.Angus sinclaire /Rodney Iona Vs Will Harrison
11.James Turner vs James Ramm
12.Enoka Muliufu vs Tepai Morea
13.Tautalatasi Tasi vs Alex Newsome
14. Tyson Davis vs Jack Maddocks
15.Tim Clements Vs Mark Nawanqanitwaswe

9.I reckon Goddard is more complete player than grant and controls a game better . Shute 1

10.Sinclaire / Iona are definitely better controllers than Harrison at this stage - although Harrison clearly superior running game. Even

11 . Everyone will say Ramm better but why ? Turner has been leading try scorer in last 2 years in a weak team . Ramm got picked from obscurity and to be fair was good last year but struggling this year. I’l say even Shute 1 Tahs 0

12 . Enoka Muliufu is Tepai just with a bigger rugby pedigree and more powerful . Would be lot cheaper too. Shute 2 tahs 0

13.Someone tell me what Newsome is good at ? Great solid player . But Lasi is bloody hard to tackle , physical and has X factor . I’ll take Lasi shute 3 tahs 0

14.Maddocks clear winner . Although clearly erratic. Shute 3 tahs 1

15. Tim Clements has been best 15 last 2 years in Shute . Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) is amazing in air and can offload but can’t defend or take contact . I’ll take proven player Shute 4 Tahs 1


Sure lot of the tahs guys have a “upside “ but what about picking the best players now ?

Obviously in perfect world you would mix and match . But I just don’t see why these tahs players have been chosen over proven Shute Shield performers

 

[eastman]

We need to face facts. The Coleman and Kerevi’s of the world are not going to touch the Tahs. The future is the young guys but if we don’t get them some on field help and guidance then they will be ruined before they are ready and or we will lose them. They aren’t going to all stay happy at the Tahs getting thumped every week.

A big concern is if we have to start paying big dollars just to recruit average players (or those who have never really dominated Super Rugby). Paying 400k for a 'big name' like Kyle Godwin or Ben Tapuai isn't going to make any difference at all- they need some real quality.

I'd feel a lot more confident in a team with Bernard Foley, Michael Hooper and any decent second row and backrower in it.

 

[eastman]

Penney wanted Hunt. Rapp said no. I guess his twisted thinking was that he was paying a fortune for his Newington boy, so he would try wedge Penney into using him.

For the money they are paying for Moeroa he should be of a quality that is getting selected for Wallaby teams. Not struggling to make it into the Tah 23 when everyone is fit.

Moeroa over Hunt was a terrible recruitment decision- someone should have been sacked for that alone (and they might have been too!)