Waratahs 2020

[Silverado]

The whole point is the Tahs have been a mess for many years due to Gibson and Co for Gibson's poor recruitment, game plan and his stupid energizer light and mobile pack which kept getting owned.
Penney has said he wants size so he can see the problem with the pack.
I have been told on here no one was available but there were.
Now Penney has inherited a mess left to him by Gibson and Hoare.
This has been years in the making which should have been stopped several years ago but it was supported which now leads to yet another season of woe for Tahs fans.

The whole point is that we get your point because you've said it 1000 times. You keep saying we should have signed big units, which would have been handy but I haven't seen you produce any real options of who these big units are

 

[Blackadder]

The whole point is that we get your point because you've said it 1000 times. You keep saying we should have signed big units, which would have been handy but I haven't seen you produce any real options of who these big units are

The point is I am right and every time I mention anyone all I here is excuses and hearsay.

 

[Braveheart81]

The point is I am right and every time I mention anyone all I here is excuses and hearsay.

Because most of the time you gloss over the realities of professional sporting teams in terms of existing contracts, salary caps, overall team needs and available players.

There is zero doubt better decisions could have been made but you make it sound like all the necessary players were available, there were no issues with who we already had contracted and the team we had (and still have) was entirely in preference to any other option.

 

[Blackadder]

The whole point is that we get your point because you've said it 1000 times. You keep saying we should have signed big units, which would have been handy but I haven't seen you produce any real options of who these big units are

And I will keep saying it.

If a few people on here are happy with the way things have been going good for you but I am not and more and more fans are fed up. The Tahs have been going backwards and instead of trying to fix problems Tahs management allowed Gibson to remain and kept re-signing him despite his shortcomings and his rubbish game plan, rubbish recruitment and lack of a clue.

You can hold onto the belief that there were no one available in the whole country but that is rubbish as other teams have the size and strength but the Tahs under Gibson recruited what HE WANTED.

 

[Braveheart81]

If a few people on here are happy with the way things have been going good for you but I am not

No one is happy with the way things are going.

Gibson is gone though. Maybe it's time to move on.

 

[Blackadder]

Because most of the time you gloss over the realities of professional sporting teams in terms of existing contracts, salary caps, overall team needs and available players.



There is zero doubt better decisions could have been made but you make it sound like all the necessary players were available, there were no issues with who we already had contracted and the team we had (and still have) was entirely in preference to any other option.

Nope not glossing over anything. Explain how other teams sign what they need under the same cap???
The Tahs bought what Gibson wanted. He was the coach, he was in charge. It is simple really. The coach recruits to his game plan. Hence the team he signed.

Can you really tell me that no one was available?? Of course not.
Gibson signed what HE WANTED.

 

[Blackadder]

No one is happy with the way things are going.



Gibson is gone though. Maybe it's time to move on.

Not when the Team left was signed by him.

 

[Braveheart81]

Nope not glossing over anything. Explain how other teams sign what they need under the same cap???
The Tahs bought what Gibson wanted. He was the coach, he was in charge. It is simple really. The coach recruits to his game plan. Hence the team he signed.

Can you really tell me that no one was available?? Of course not.
Gibson signed what HE WANTED.

Did the other teams sign what they needed?

Of the Australian teams we finished 2nd, 2nd, 1st and 3rd in the years Gibson was coach. 2019 was clearly the year the wheels fell off.

You make it sound like we were the worst Australian team every year yet there was a refusal to change what was being done.

 

[Braveheart81]

Not when the Team left was signed by him.

What are the answers then? Give us a plan.

You are clearly invested enough in the Tahs that you could spend a bit of time working out when current contracts are due to expire, who we should prioritise re-signing, who should be moved on, who could be re-signed if the price is right and who we should be targeting for recruitment.

 

[Blackadder]

Did the other teams sign what they needed?



Of the Australian teams we finished 2nd, 2nd, 1st and 3rd in the years Gibson was coach. 2019 was clearly the year the wheels fell off.



You make it sound like we were the worst Australian team every year yet there was a refusal to change what was being done.

No the wheels fell off before that.

Look at 2017. Look at the Force game and how bad the Tahs played. That should have been the last time he was in charge.

2018 was Folau and Big T and the Tahs only beat one top 8 side all year.

 

[Braveheart81]

No the wheels fell off before that.

Look at 2017. Look at the Force game and how bad the Tahs played. That should have been the last time he was in charge.

2018 was Folau and Big T and the Tahs only beat one top 8 side all year.

Sorry, I made a mistake there. 2017 was a shocker. We were 4th of the 5 Australian teams.

Anyway, how about we work out how to fix the issue rather than continue complaining about Gibson. I can't imagine it's cathartic for you. It seems like it is just as frustrating for you to write as it is for us to read.

 

[Blackadder]

Sorry, I made a mistake there. 2017 was a shocker. We were 4th of the 5 Australian teams.



Anyway, how about we work out how to fix the issue rather than continue complaining about Gibson. I can't imagine it's cathartic for you. It seems like it is just as frustrating for you to write as it is for us to read.

The problem is it was allowed to continue and hence this season is going to pieces. The problem should have been fixed after 2017 and it wasn't.

It will take many years to rebuild as nothing was put in place for the future.
The faith in Gibson was absolutely ridiculous which has left the club in chaos.
Funny thing is people still defend him and attack anyone who says anything.

 

[Bandar]

The problem is it was allowed to continue and hence this season is going to pieces. The problem should have been fixed after 2017 and it wasn't.

It will take many years to rebuild as nothing was put in place for the future.
The faith in Gibson was absolutely ridiculous which has left the club in chaos.
Funny thing is people still defend him and attack anyone who says anything.

Nobody defending him - just not sure what complaining about him over and over is going to achieve - he's gone

 

[Blackadder]

Nobody defending him - just not sure what complaining about him over and over is going to achieve - he's gone

By his legacy and recruitment remains

 

[barbarian]

OK thanks Blackadder. I think this has run its course for the time being. Maybe time to move on to other discussions.

 

[RedsHappy]

Just an aside: why do we focus most singularly upon coach and player development etc failings (even if they are factual failings we can see and agree on as such), when the truly most culpable parties are the respective RU board of directors and RU CEOs whose fundamental responsibilities are to get HC choice, and the major strategic team-related policies surrounding HCs, right?

Eg, Richard Graham was a catastrophically bad coach for the Reds in his period there. But it was a stubborn, egotistical then Chairman of the QRU whom drove for his initial appointment and then refused to listen to the many legitimate critics (including some on his own QRU board) that, almost from the first, advised him that Graham would be/was being a disaster for the Reds. Were the appalling Reds outcomes under Graham truly, in the deeper sense, just his fault?

It all starts and, over time, finishes at the top. No organisation is EVER of a higher calibre than that demonstrated and delivered by an entity's highest supervisory body.

 

[molman]

I think in the modern era we need to be looking at the coaching team as a collective, not just the HC. When you look at the recent success of the Brumbies you can see the McKellar / Fisher / Hewat collective is humming along nicely. It's so much about the culture which helps drive standards, but it is also the detail that often the assistant coaches bring. Some of the manner in which Gibson and Cron left says to me that things weren't where they needed to be on that front for awhile.



You see it up in Qld where their attack looked lost the last couple of years, but the ongoing cohesion coupled with what looks to be some of McKay's work has that front improving. He has rounded out the knowledge and skills in areas that I suspect Thorn was falling short in.


As much as I agree with Blackadder regarding some of the roster weaknesses, I think there is also an element of doubt in my mind regarding the potential of our players being realised. I've seen enough glimpses in enough games to suspect that that many have the aptitude to be performing better. I do wonder if there is something specific to the environment that isn't allowing the Tah's to fully realise that potential. Could it even be a factor of location where the smaller cities of Canberra and Christchurch are more conducive to a winning team than say the more exciting Sydney and Auckland. I want the attitude of the O'Discolls, Farrells, McKaws and Larkhams of the world were you see players always striving to be better at their craft, not Beale smiling when he makes yet another error.

 

[upthereds#!]

Nope not glossing over anything. Explain how other teams sign what they need under the same cap???
The Tahs bought what Gibson wanted. He was the coach, he was in charge. It is simple really. The coach recruits to his game plan. Hence the team he signed.

Can you really tell me that no one was available?? Of course not.
Gibson signed what HE WANTED.

Penney said he wanted big units and we all know he needs big units.

You don't like people saying noone was available and there must be some available

Can you name someone who was available that fits the physical profile, experience & calibre required?

 

[cyclopath]

Penney said he wanted big units and we all know he needs big units.

You don't like people saying noone was available and there must be some available

Can you name someone who was available that fits the physical profile, experience & calibre required?

I think we euthanased that discussion a few posts up. No need to exhume the corpse.

 

[molman]

I think we euthanased that discussion a few posts up. No need to exhume the corpse.

Tend to agree, going in circles. No point looking at the what-ifs now. Rather focus on the present and future.

Also as much as we speculate, the coaches and franchises to my knowledge do have access to databases of all the available Australian players both locally and abroad (surprisingly not always the case) and probably have more insights to the options out there than we honestly do. Much of the issue is more to do with player identification and bringing players through as many of the players you would name at other clubs didn't start out as the finished product. I mean look at the poor Reds, they have suffered years of dismal results to bring the current group through.

The only other option is to bring in foreign players whilst you develop your talent. Even Chieka had to go abroad to get Potgieter as there wasn't an equivalent option closer to home.