Waratahs 2018

[Derpus]

That's pretty much my point.
If it's not entirely obvious,don't give them a full time contract.Seems to me they have an unofficial quota, and the decision is about which is the best option.
Let them develop in colts, just like most of the current Tahs did, when an exceptional kid comes along, sure, spend the cash.
Rather than paying a kid for 3 years before he's ready to actually be in the match day squad, the code would benefit more paying a DO to help out in the western suburbs,

This shit is why every industry in Australia complains that there is a shortage of skilled labour whilst we simultaneously have a massive surplus of graduates. If you want there to be a couple of decent Australian rugby players (insert lawyer, doctor, carpenter.........fucken whatever) you have to invest in and train the guys at some point. That means spending both time and money on them whilst fully aware that they may leave.

Classic strayan attitude.

 

[Hawko]

The forums of this site are where there can be detailed discussion on a wide range of topics, where widely divergent views can be aired and discussed. The front page blogs are where visitors first come to get match previews and reports and keep up to date. More people read the blog than come to the forums.<p>

This site is strengthened by the quality and diversity of our blog writers and arguably the Waratah bloggers have a long history of interesting and accurate reporting. This year, for a variety of reasons, we have lost a number of our most experienced writers and the irreplaceable Lee Grant, who organised those writers over the season.

So we are looking for people who have the Waratahs as their team and who have sufficient writing skills to put together 600+ words - writing blog articles for Waratah home games and overseas away games. We are looking to rebuild our team of writers so we can provide the same great coverage that we have in years past.<p>

If you would like to join the Waratah writers team or would like to recommend someone can you please PM me.<p>

[For the uninitiated, you send a PM by clicking on "inbox" at the top right of the page, click "start a conversation", put "Hawko" in the "participants", write a few words in the dialogue box and press "start a conversation".]<p>

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Just in case you missed it in the explosion over developing schoolboys.

 

[I like to watch]

So you're advocating for smaller squad sizes?

Not signing a player on an EPS or supplementary contract and instead spending the money on a development officer doesn't really seem like the applicable trade off.

I'm suggesting that if these squads are filled by the 19 year olds like Horwitz and Deegan, they are throwing money away.
Deegan never played a game in his two or three years,Horwitz didn't make a contribution until his 5th year.
Again, sign the exceptional ones when they pop up,that's not an annual occurrence.

 

[southsider]

Is a sizable part of it that it is a pretty small pool of players? Apart from a few late bloomers not many really go totally under the radar. Of those players who weren't that good when they were 18-21 but later became a very strong professional player, firstly how many of them are there, and secondly, who could have predicted it to give them a contract earlier and improve their development in a professional environment?

Yea that’s true I guess. I suppose unless it’s a Hooper, G.smith, Giteau type of player then maybe they don’t contract them until they’re 21-22, I feel some players make it as professionals because they’ve come up through the ranks, got a contract very early on and coaches are like “fuck it we’ve got to keep going with this kid” rather than going with a slightly older player that deserves it.

I know there’s still a bit of a conspiracy theory among colts etc that if you’re not in someone’s little black book by the time you’re 18-19 then you’re screwed. Whereas league they still often contract new players who are 22-23-24

 

[Strewthcobber]

Yea that’s true I guess. I suppose unless it’s a Hooper, G.smith, Giteau type of player then maybe they don’t contract them until they’re 21-22, I feel some players make it as professionals because they’ve come up through the ranks, got a contract very early on and coaches are like “fuck it we’ve got to keep going with this kid” rather than going with a slightly older player that deserves it.

I know there’s still a bit of a conspiracy theory among colts etc that if you’re not in someone’s little black book by the time you’re 18-19 then you’re screwed. Whereas league they still often contract new players who are 22-23-24

Might be true for NRL but the 22-23-24 year old league players were still earning money playing in the lower grades and developing as (at least) a semi-pro sportsman though right?



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[Inside Shoulder]

A substantial part is around developing that player as well. I don't think any sport would advocate that the best way for an 18 year old to realise their full potential was to play/train part time for a few years as as an amateur or semi-professional.

That would be a legitimate point if you have faith in the capacity of those making the decisions to identify the player who will "be the one". He could be another Tom Carter or Tilse - training with the Tahs for their formative years and becoming a liability by the time they made it on the field..
Funny thing here is that I had been told on reasonably reliable authority that Gibson wanted to banish signing of schoolboys for all the reasons being discussed.

 

[Tomikin]

That would be a legitimate point if you have faith in the capacity of those making the decisions to identify the player who will "be the one". He could be another Tom Carter or Tilse - training with the Tahs for their formative years and becoming a liability by the time they made it on the field..
Funny thing here is that I had been told on reasonably reliable authority that Gibson wanted to banish signing of schoolboys for all the reasons being discussed.

I will not hear a bad word about Tom Carter.. He was critical in keeping the Brumbies winning against the Tahs for years.. God speed Tom..

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[Inside Shoulder]

I will not hear a bad word about Tom Carter.. He was critical in keeping the Brumbies winning against the Tahs for years.. God speed Tom..

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and he continued that spirit by gumming up the midfield at Uni for a few too many years and thereby sharing the SS around some other clubs - that said he showed undeniable class in his concession speech after Norths got the bikkies.

 

[wamberal]

Meanwhile, the Parramatta Eels just announced a loss of 10 million last year, and the same article (SMH) claimed that all, or most, franchises ran at a loss.




Apropos of not much, other than this is what we are up against. If our whole game lost this much, we would be out the door.

 

[Silverado]

That would be a legitimate point if you have faith in the capacity of those making the decisions to identify the player who will "be the one". He could be another Tom Carter or Tilse - training with the Tahs for their formative years and becoming a liability by the time they made it on the field..
Funny thing here is that I had been told on reasonably reliable authority that Gibson wanted to banish signing of schoolboys for all the reasons being discussed.

You make it sound like we sign schoolboys on a regular basis. The majority of the new signings are 20-24. With a squad of 40, a lot of the squad won't make game day 23 and are contracted on development contracts to prepare them for when the incumbents move on


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[southsider]

Might be true for NRL but the 22-23-24 year old league players were still earning money playing in the lower grades and developing as (at least) a semi-pro sportsman though right?

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I’d argue jersey flag is just a professional environment as shute shield. The money is more plentiful in that there are more players receiving it but again I can’t imagine it’s much different to what shute shield players get (wether it’s above or below the table is a different matter all together)

But yes I do see the points you’re making

 

[fatprop]

I'm suggesting that if these squads are filled by the 19 year olds like Horwitz and Deegan, they are throwing money away.
Deegan never played a game in his two or three years,Horwitz didn't make a contribution until his 5th year.
Again, sign the exceptional ones when they pop up,that's not an annual occurrence.

That is called churn, there will always be some that don't work, the goal is to continually refine the process to limit failure

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[amirite]

I actually find this really interesting -- comparing the treatment / reactions to the Simmons and Cooper situations.

I haven't seen anyone come out and defend Cooper to the same extent, yet Simmons was just not resigned. Quade is being paid to play club rugby.

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Hey mate, I actually think the Reds didn't sign Simmons (and didn't want Cooper) because they're planning to be good in 2020ish. Those 2 blokes are already in decline currently, and will be well into it by then. Makes sense.

Not trashing the decisions to not sign Simmons (though the Cooper thing is far dodgier) but I do take umbrage with people acting like Simmons is local 3rd grade standard. He's a fringe Wallaby and in the world's 10 best lineout operators.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Hey mate, I actually think the Reds didn't sign Simmons (and didn't want Cooper) because they're planning to be good in 2020ish. Those 2 blokes are already in decline currently, and will be well into it by then. Makes sense.

Not trashing the decisions to not sign Simmons (though the Cooper thing is far dodgier) but I do take umbrage with people acting like Simmons is local 3rd grade standard. He's a fringe Wallaby and in the world's 10 best lineout operators.

Okay, he's a very average player, not good not bad. He has a few games that are actually quite good followed by a number of games where he's very average.

He shouldn't have been (and mostly wasn't) making the Reds starting XV. He had a blinder in his last home game for the Reds and managed to turn that into a Wallabies spot (likely not hurt by a move to the Waratahs).
He's good in the lineout, puts in decent work around the pitch -- nothing special; but that is about it.

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[Inside Shoulder]

You make it sound like we sign schoolboys on a regular basis. The majority of the new signings are 20-24. With a squad of 40, a lot of the squad won't make game day 23 and are contracted on development contracts to prepare them for when the incumbents move on


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It happens in more years than not

 

[southsider]

You make it sound like we sign schoolboys on a regular basis. The majority of the new signings are 20-24. With a squad of 40, a lot of the squad won't make game day 23 and are contracted on development contracts to prepare them for when the incumbents move on


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Who have we signed in the last few seasons that is 23-24 that wasn’t already contracted at another super team/with the 7’s program??

 

[Silverado]

Who have we signed in the last few seasons that is 23-24 that wasn’t already contracted at another super team/with the 7’s program??

This year Maclean Jones, Kelly Meafua and Nick Palmer spring to mind. Why is having no Super Rugby past an attraction at 24?


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[Silverado]

It happens in more years than not

The NRL have got no problems with signing players like Charlie Rourke, Tom Wright and Angus Crichton straight out of school. We're in a competitive market


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[fatprop]

The NRL have got no problems with signing players like Charlie Rourke, Tom Wright and Angus Crichton straight out of school. We're in a competitive market


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And that is only the successful ones, for everyone who succeeds there are plenty who fail

 

[wamberal]

The NRL have got no problems with signing players like Charlie Rourke, Tom Wright and Angus Crichton straight out of school. We're in a competitive market


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And what about the kids they sign who are still at school? Kids as young as 14, maybe younger? I did a bit of volunteer work at Terrigal Primary School for a few years. There was a kid who was a wonderful athlete, he was a star surfer, and also a very, very good footballer. He had already decided that he was going to have a career as a professional, in one code or the other. He was 10. Any kid who has set his eye on earning money, is not going to end up in our code, no matter how wonderful the grass roots are. It's all about money.