Waratahs 2015

[TOCC]

Izzy at 13 opens the door for Karmichael at fullback.. Or a return to fullback for KB (Kurtley Beale)..


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[qwerty51]

I would love to see Izzy @ 13 but it's for the Tahs only. Definitely won't play there in gold for this year at least for as long as TK is fit.

 

[Quick Hands]

Izzy at 13 opens the door for Karmichael at fullback.. Or a return to fullback for KB (Kurtley Beale)..


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Please don't foreshadow KB (Kurtley Beale) at fullback. If he must play, he'll do me nicely from the bench.

I'm very interested how Karmichael Hunt goes - I'm just as confident about his ability to really make a positive difference to the Wallabies as I was about Israel Folau. Looking forward to the prospect of KH in Wallaby gold.

 

[Quick Hands]

Ok, here's a test for Wallaby coach Michael Chieka.

His star fullback wants to play outside centre for his provincial team. The same position where we have, arguably, our best back currently playing for the Brumbies.

So does Wallaby coach Chieka pick Izzy at 13 (assuming Beale at fullback) for the good of his Tahs, or does he do what's best for the Wallabies and keep Izzy at fullback?

Perhaps the Wallaby coach will ask the Brumby coach to consider playing Kuridrani at 12 in Super Rugby, you know, for the good of the Wallabies?

I think that Cheika will pick the best players in the best position for the Waratahs and will do the same at the Wallabies. I expect he'd support other provincial coaches picking their best side as well - in the positions that suit their super side.

That's how it should work IMO. I don't buy this stuff the the Wallaby coach should lean on super coaches to pick guys in certain positions. Not his role and never should have been in the past either.

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

I doubt Izzy will play anywhere but fullback for the Waratahs, simply because there isn't a better fullback in the squad. And Adam Ashley-Cooper has that spot pretty much nailed down. The 2014 line-up worked. Cheika's not going to mess with it.

Izzy at 13 for the Wallabies is a non-starter for me as well. Tevita Kuridrani has that spot locked up.

 

[p.Tah]

The RWC will see a number of big outside centres. Kuridrani is our big 13, if he goes down Cheika could shuffle Izzy from 15 to 13 and replace Izzy with Beale (or JOC (James O'Connor) or even Hunt).

Kuridrani is first choice 13. Izzy is 15, but perhaps Cheika wants the option of a like for like (size wise) back up.

 

[ShtinaTina]

I'm a little off put by Foley shopping himself around in the media. Could be bias. Does it sit well with you Tahs fans?

http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/.../story-fndpt9s1-1227193824332?from=public_rss

Doesn't worry me. As a fan you'd have to be a little naive to think that any player wouldn't be thinking the same thing, he's just said it.

 

[ShtinaTina]

Well Cheiks doesn't seem to have an issue running Izzy in the centres. http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/w...ael-folaus-centre-switch-20150123-12www3.html

 

[Pfitzy]

Some people are carrying on like Foley said "Yeah fuck the lot of yers! Soon as I get an offer I'm goneski!"

Take a breath, ladies (sorry Shtina - you know I mean them). Half the time you're up these blokes for giving by-the-book answers and not showing any sort of thought or personality like league players ("played hard, done good!"). One of them has the temerity to state the facts as they are with a little honesty and you're all over them like a cheap suit!

Fuck your husbands must be sick of your shit by now.

or does he do what's best for the Wallabies and keep Izzy at fullback?

Ah, but how do we define what "best" looks like, Reginald?

I think anyone saying a player is "locked in" to a position has forgotten we have four months of Super Rugby + another of Test rugby before RWC kicks off, and a lot can change either through injury, form, or combination changes.

Yes, TK has been fucking awesome at 13. Izzy has been a standout at 15. Lot of rugby to be played before the next Wallaby squad is selected, including some potentially delicious head-to-head battles.

And while everyone is wringing their hands about what the outside backs look like, remember that we should be giving approximately zero fucks to that argument until we sort out the aggression in our forwards.

 

[Marcelo]

I doubt Izzy will play anywhere but fullback for the Waratahs, simply because there isn't a better fullback in the squad. And Adam Ashley-Cooper has that spot pretty much nailed down. The 2014 line-up worked. Cheika's not going to mess with it.

Izzy at 13 for the Wallabies is a non-starter for me as well. Tevita Kuridrani has that spot locked up.

Yeah, Kuridrani had a very high performance last year despite the team's results, he deserves the #13. Perhaps Israel would like to have less responsibility in defense, as the last man (fullback) has a lot of responsibility and not everyone can withstand that pressure.

If Hunt has an extraordinary Super Rugby season at fullback, then Israel will stop being so pretentious. I worry about his body (Hunt), he has had many injuries and the Wallabies have no luck with that

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah, Kuridrani had a very high performance last year despite the team's results, he deserves the #13. Perhaps Israel would like to have less responsibility in defense, as the last man (fullback) has a lot of responsibility and not everyone can withstand that pressure.

If Hunt has an extraordinary Super Rugby season at fullback, then Israel will stop being so pretentious. I worry about his body, he has had many injuries and the Wallabies have no luck with that

13 is a much tougher defensive position than 15.

What exactly has Folau done that is pretentious?

 

[Pfitzy]

13 is a much tougher defensive position than 15.

What exactly has Folau done that is pretentious?

Besides worn a Waratahs jersey and had the brazen gall to win a championship?

 

[ShtinaTina]

Besides worn a Waratahs jersey and had the brazen gall to win a championship?

Just general awesomeness n stuff.

 

[ShtinaTina]

Some people are carrying on like Foley said "Yeah fuck the lot of yers! Soon as I get an offer I'm goneski!"

Take a breath, ladies (sorry Shtina - you know I mean them). Half the time you're up these blokes for giving by-the-book answers and not showing any sort of thought or personality like league players ("played hard, done good!"). One of them has the temerity to state the facts as they are with a little honesty and you're all over them like a cheap suit!

Haha noted.

 

[Marcelo]

13 is a much tougher defensive position than 15.

What exactly has Folau done that is pretentious?

The fullback is the last position of the team, you make a mistake and is a try for the other team. If you make a knock-on, it's a scrum for the opponent team very near of your ingoal.

At fullback you are alone, you make a mistake at 15 and don't have someone to cover you. If you make a mistake at 13 almost always have someone who can help you.

Undoubtedly the fullback is a more difficult position and requires more skills. There are many fullbacks who can play at 13 but few centres who can play at 15 IMHO

 

[Braveheart81]

I disagree. 13 is a much harder defensive position technically. Your positioning and reading of the attack is much more difficult.

There's a reason why lots of backs new to rugby union start at fullback before moving into the centres. It tests your one on one tackling and it's certainly true that missed tackles result in tries but putting yourself in the position to make the tackle is easier.

It's fairly widely acknowledged that 13 is the hardest defensive position in the backline.

 

[Marcelo]

I disagree. 13 is a much harder defensive position technically. Your positioning and reading of the attack is much more difficult.

There's a reason why lots of backs new to rugby union start at fullback before moving into the centres. It tests your one on one tackling and it's certainly true that missed tackles result in tries but putting yourself in the position to make the tackle is easier.

It's fairly widely acknowledged that 13 is the hardest defensive position in the backline.

I disagree, you need a broader set of skills to play at 15. For example kicking game and great handling ability, especially catching high balls are essential for the position.

As 13 you probably have greater involvement in the attack but each involvement of fullback is a surgical intervention.

Nor do I agree about that new players start as fullbacks, actually they begin as wingers because it's the least committed and easier position of the backline IMHO.

Izzy Folau can play at 13
Kuridrani can't play at 15

Ben Smith can play at 13
Conrad Smith can't play at 15

 

[Inside Shoulder]

To say Conrad smith can't do something is brave, at best.
In any event it doesn't prove your point: Conrad smith is the ABs first choice 13 because of the things he does in the front line, attack and defence, not because he can't play 15.
Folau has shown no great ability to do those things.
NZ data analysis showed "Conrad Smith is very good at making tackles that created turnovers. This is why he was preferred in the centres ahead of Nonu and Sonny Bill Williams in 2011."
o'Driscoll was and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is simlar, Kuridrani is getting there.
We should be more worried about hiding Foley on the wing and losing the air battle when our opponents deliberately kick to him.

 

[TOCC]

MHCS, you said you though Izzy wants to move to 13 so he has less responsibility in defence..

As mentioned by Braveheart, 13 is widely accepted as the most difficult defensive position in the back-line... I think most people on this forum would agree with that comment.

If Izzy wants to move to 13 its for reasons beyond having less defensive responsibility.

 

[Marcelo]

MHCS, you said you though Izzy wants to move to 13 so he has less responsibility in defence..

As mentioned by Braveheart, 13 is widely accepted as the most difficult defensive position in the back-line. I think most people on this forum would agree with that comment.

If Izzy wants to move to 13 its for reasons beyond having less defensive responsibility.

I don't think that 13 is the hardest in defense position, both centers have to defend the channel 2, then #12 & #13 are the most committed positions in defense at the backline.

What I meant is that the fullback is the most sensitive position in general terms at the backline. You are the last man, you gotta have a good kicking game, a good catching game and you are the extra player in attack. It's a very sensitive position, I played at the backline, and fullback is the hardest position IMHO. Perhaps Izzy wants less responsibility, he has been harshly criticized for his kicking game, at 13 his poor kicking game can be unnoticed.

Manu Tuilagi plays at 13 in England, and always has been criticized by Poms because he can't give a pass. As fullback he will be humiliated