Waratahs 2015
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Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
No. I thought he was outstanding in the NRC. Hadn't seen much of him before that but he went up the ratings with a bullet IMO. He might be in front of a lot of people by the end of this year.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
No you are not the only one. The trouble for Jed is that skipper Dave Dennis will be in front to him for this notter (lock and 6) role, and Jackpot is a bit of a notter himself.
As for no. 8, Palu and Gray are ahead of him as specialists.
Jed is one that is right for the picking by overseas clubs. I think he would be a terrific player in the English Premiership - they love guys like Holloway.
But Jackpot will likely move on and Jed should have his chance.
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David Codey (61)
I have a less optimistic view about the competence of those two @ 10 in a Super Rugby.
But as LG noted,Lance is a capable replacement so it's unlikely we will need to find out.
Compare them to other teams 3rd, 4th and 5th options at 10 and they start looking pretty decent in my opinion.
In a 36 man squad you're always going to be in trouble if you lose your first two choices. The same is true for pretty much every team in every position.
He's in Narbonne where he's become so famous they've named a dish after him.
It's a take on a classic French toasted sandwich which they've called the Crocked Monsieur.
Jagman
Trevor Allan (34)
Exactly. Volavola was instrumental in getting souths to the final by beating Uni. He has an enormous boot and looks far more composed leading the team around than he used to. If Foley got injured you could almost leave Beale in his composite 12/15 position and just slide Volavola in to 10. Horwitz has a good fend, that's about all I've seen from him.
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David Codey (61)
Ben V was good in the SS,and atrocious in both Soup & Gen Blue.
He appeared to be suffering from huge bout of nerves, and was basically used as a winger of last resort last year.
Horwitz has been used predominantly as a 12 since leaving School.He is proficient at converting a numbers advantage,but creates little against a set defence.He does not appear to have scintillating speed or footwork of note.
That's a solid SS player.
He is the antithesis of a Cheika 10, as he plays in the pocket.
Who exactly are you comparing them to ILTW? Did Volavola even make it on the field last year? Maybe once or twice at best. Horwitz certainly didn't.
They're in the squad because they're viewed as young players with talent that is worth trying to develop. If we get to a situation where we're forced to start them we'll be in big trouble. I don't see how that is any different to any other team or any other position.
They're in the squad because they're viewed as young players with talent that is worth trying to develop. If we get to a situation where we're forced to start them we'll be in big trouble. I don't see how that is any different to any other team or any other position.
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David Codey (61)
I'm comparing them to no one.
Just making the point that ATM their selection @ 10 would dramatically weaken the side.
It's actually not that unusual for a side to be missing their first choice 10 & 12 for parts of the season.
Just making the point that ATM their selection @ 10 would dramatically weaken the side.
It's actually not that unusual for a side to be missing their first choice 10 & 12 for parts of the season.
gowaratahs
Sydney Middleton (9)
Ben V, Horwitz, Lucas, Holloway, Peterson and Hodge all didn't get game time for the Tahs in Super Rugby in 2014. IIRC, the last we saw of Volavola at that level was in the early rounds of 2013 - so it will be interesting to see if he can convert SS and NRC into something more.
I rate Volavola, though he seems to have a similar temperament issue to that of Betham - one mistake and the confidence evaporates.
You say it like it's a specific weakness of the Waratahs though. It's just a reality of having a squad of 35 or 36 people.
Beale and Foley are two of our most important players. We would be in trouble if we lost both of them at the same time. At Super Rugby level though I think we're in a pretty good position as far as depth goes.
A few years ago we started the season with Halangahu as our best option at number 10.
Due to the versatility of our backline, we have pretty good depth in my opinion.
Foley, Beale, Lance, Volavola, Horwitz can all play 10.
Beale, Lance, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horwitz can all play 12.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horne, Carraro, Kellaway can all play 13.
Betham, Horne, Naiyaravaro, Kellaway, Clunies-Ross, Carraro can all play wing.
Folau, Lance, Volavola, Kellaway, Beale, Foley can all play fullback.
As far as our squad stands, I think you'd have trouble finding another Super Rugby side that boasts better options 3 or 4 deep in these positions.
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David Codey (61)
You have moved the goalposts.
My point was that IMO those 2 options @ 10 are currently not up to Soup standard in that position.
Listing most of the options they have in other backline positions,doesn't change that.
Quite happy for you to demonstrate why you think they are viable replacements @ 10.
My point was that IMO those 2 options @ 10 are currently not up to Soup standard in that position.
Listing most of the options they have in other backline positions,doesn't change that.
Quite happy for you to demonstrate why you think they are viable replacements @ 10.
I think for 3rd to 5th string options at 10 (including Lance) they are as good as you can hope to have at Super Rugby level.
If players who could easily go the entire season without getting on the park (as was the case with Volavola and Horwitz last year) are up to Super Rugby starting standard in a key position then you're either paying them too much or retaining too many veterans at the expense of developing players for the future.
If players who could easily go the entire season without getting on the park (as was the case with Volavola and Horwitz last year) are up to Super Rugby starting standard in a key position then you're either paying them too much or retaining too many veterans at the expense of developing players for the future.
Jagman
Trevor Allan (34)
I just don't think Volavola is that bad. I would completely agree with ILTW if he were refering to his 2013 form when he actually played for the Tahs off the bench but his form in the SS finals and the NRC was as good as any other flyhalf. You state that he often looks nervous and that was my opinion too. But watching him kick a 50m goal after the siren to defeat Syd Uni made me think he's turned the corner on this. He always seemed composed in the NRC. In short he's not the player we used to see in 2013. Even his defence has improved.
I agree. Comparing 2015 to 2013, Volavola is a much better player and is further down the pecking order than he was then.
Surely that can only be a good thing for the Waratahs. Our depth in most positions is superb.
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