Waratahs 2014

[USARugger]

Just the forwards? No, all the backs as well—and mixed in too.

Makes sense. It usually only takes ~2 phases for the backs/forwards to start mixing and true back-on-back or forward-on-forward isolation is a thing of the past largely relegated to the set pieces. It was apparent last year, and this seems to be buoyed by the evidence that you've provided, that Cheika is actively seeking a way to leverage this fact to their advantage and make it more of a strength than an inconvenience (as many teams with poor ball skills in the forwards do). Their attack pattern also seems to cause the defense to end up "mixing" even fast then they normally would because of the rapid and lateral nature of it all.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Why are McCutcheon and Hoiles getting compared? McCutcheon is the backup 7 to Hooper, he is essential. Hoiles is a #8 or a 6 at a pinch.

Really?
I'd be looking at Hoiles as a 6 and on what I've seen McCutcheon should be a 6. I'd look at Hoiles at 7 before McCutcheon - but I have a lot of man love for Hoiles.

 

[Intruder]

Really?
I'd be looking at Hoiles as a 6 and on what I've seen McCutcheon should be a 6. I'd look at Hoiles at 7 before McCutcheon - but I have a lot of man love for Hoiles.

Yep, McCutcheon and Hooper are the only 7's in the squad. All other backrowers are 6 & 8 with Dennis, Palu, Gray, Holloway, Potgeiter, Hoiles and Kavenga. Not sure on other possible invited players LG would have more info.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yep, McCutcheon and Hooper are the only 7's in the squad. All other backrowers are 6 & 8 with Dennis, Palu, Gray, Holloway, Potgeiter, Hoiles and Kavenga. Not sure on other possible invited players LG would have more info.

Is this an indication that Cheika sees the role of the true-to-history 7 declining? If so, I share his view in the medium term.

 

[Lee Grant]

Yeah those are the only two contracted no. 7s though Lam could be drafted if there is an injury because he has had all the training content.

Ryan Hodson from Eastern Suburbs has also been with the Invited Players. He goes OK and got on the park for the Melbourne Rebels last year, which is strange as he is from WA.

And Cutch has never really been a specialist in the position; he has always been a notter.

Now in the days where the second man in is the poacher and folks with all jersey numbers are having a go at the ball, specialist 7s are not common.

And the specialist 7s are being judged now not just on their fetching which has less currency, but on their second string abilities.

Hooper, Pocock and Gill in Australia, are all excellent 7s but they are all different.

But I digress.
.

 

[Train Without a Station]

And Cutch has never really been a specialist in the position; he has always been a notter.

To answer Qwerty, that's exactly why I was comparing them. Tim Davidson and Richard Brown both fall into the same category as McCutcheon and Hoiles too. Hoiles has probably been the most successful of all 4.

The fact that one wore 8, one is listed as a 7 isn't that relevant when they are the same size and play very similar games.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I thought they might even go for a LHP like Metcher, though Tilse and Kepu "can" play on both sides, and Kepu considers himself as a THP these day.

Lee, Metcher played most if not all of his club rugby at THP.

 

[Lee Grant]

I thought he was too but I thought I was wrong when I saw him packing down at LHP at training, but I may have been mistaken about that too.

Those things happen when you're 75.
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>
Now in the days where the second man in is the poacher and folks with all jersey numbers are having a go at the ball, specialist 7s are not common.

And the specialist 7s are being judged now not just on their fetching which has less currency, but on their second string abilities. <snip>

The current teachings coming out of ARU coach education (and HPU) is that the tackle is completed when the tackling player has regained their feet and is on their feet over the takcled player contesting for the ball (having released them as they get to their feet).

This is not just the #6, #7 or #8 but for all players.

Blokes and blokesses who simply bring their opponent to ground have not done their job.

This approach is being rolled out to the kids in the Junior Gold Cup (14 - 16 year olds) and in the various academies and schoolboy rep teams around the place. The more "enlightened" Colts and Grade Coaches are doing the same.

 

[Pete King]

Yeah those are the only two contracted no. 7s though Lam could be drafted if there is an injury because he has had all the training content.


And the specialist 7s are being judged now not just on their fetching which has less currency, but on their second string abilities.

.

If this is the case Hoiles would be of far greater value then Cutch. Think Roach & Hoiles would be my last two Full timers.

Lee out of curiosity another back rower I know but has there been no interest in Peter Samu?

 

[Braveheart81]

McCutcheon is already under contract. It's not a question of him or Hoiles for 2014.

I think McCutcheon did pretty well when he made his comeback in 2013. He was a decent option at number 8 or off the bench despite it not being his best position.

Given that within the 35 man squad there are only four props and two hookers currently, I can't see how the final two spots (one full contract, one EPS) can't go to a prop and a hooker.

I imagine Hoiles will be looking at being an injury backup at best and could potentially be drafted into another Super Rugby team during the season if they need a backrower.

I definitely think Hoiles still has a fair amount to offer at Super Rugby level after overcoming his Achilles injuries but I can't see how the Tahs can offer him a contract for 2014.

 

[Pete King]

McCutcheon is already under contract. It's not a question of him or Hoiles for 2014.

I think McCutcheon did pretty well when he made his comeback in 2013. He was a decent option at number 8 or off the bench despite it not being his best position.

Given that within the 35 man squad there are only four props and two hookers currently, I can't see how the final two spots (one full contract, one EPS) can't go to a prop and a hooker.

I imagine Hoiles will be looking at being an injury backup at best and could potentially be drafted into another Super Rugby team during the season if they need a backrower.

I definitely think Hoiles still has a fair amount to offer at Super Rugby level after overcoming his Achilles injuries but I can't see how the Tahs can offer him a contract for 2014.

Ok Fair enough thought there were 2 Full, 1 EPS. Meant more so if (touch wood) Hooper were injured in early rounds I believe having Hoiles replace him at 7 would serve the tahs significantly better then Cutch.

 

[Lindommer]

If Hooper's injured in the early rounds (God forbid) the Tahs'll need more than Cutch and Hoiles to plug the hole.

 

[Braveheart81]

Current squad is:

Props (1-4): Robinson, Kepu, Ryan, Tilse
Hookers (5-6): TPN, Latu
Locks (7-11): Douglas, Skelton, Potgeiter, Peterson, Chapman
Backrow (12-17): Dennis, McCutcheon, Holloway, Hooper, Palu, Gray
Scrum half (18-20): Phipps, McKibbin, Lucas
Fly half (21-24): Foley, Beale, Horwitz, Volavola
Centres (25-29): Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Hodge, Lance, Carraro
Wing (30-32): Betham, Crawford, Alofa,
Fullback (33): Folau

I'd probably prefer to have McCutcheon as an option at 7 than Hoiles but I'd prefer Hoiles at 6 or 8.

I definitely think Roach and Metcher are the two best options for the Tahs to sign to fill those last two spots. I wouldn't be unhappy with Talakai although I think Metcher edges him currently. They're the same age (22) so there isn't anything to differentiate them there.

 

[Pete King]

If Hooper's injured in the early rounds (God forbid) the Tahs'll need more than Cutch and Hoiles to plug the hole.

Like the year Waugh was injured, pivotal position 7

 

[fatprop]

If Hooper's injured in the early rounds (God forbid) the Tahs'll need more than Cutch and Hoiles to plug the hole.

No issue with Cutch stepping in, he is a very solid seven and as good as any of the kids running around. And they will still be there if necessary

Hoiles, nice runner with good ball skills, but I have always thought him as lacking the physicality needed to rip in; in attack or defense - and not a seven.

 

[JSRF10]

The members mail indicates that all the Wallabies from the spring tour will be available for the trial game against the Blues in SFS. We might see some of the questions about what Chieka will do to fit Beale into the team answered.

 

[Crashy]

Anyone know if the Tahs have signed a sleeve sponsor yet. Looks ordinary with the blank canvas there...

 

[fatprop]

Video interview from Cheika on the fox site for a while, worth a look, Folau to stay at 15, so far, he doesn't understand as a guy who never played for the Wobs, how someone could give it up

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby

 

[Tomikin]

Video interview from Cheika on the fox site for a while, worth a look, Folau to stay at 15, so far, he doesn't understand as a guy who never played for the Wobs, how someone could give it up

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby

I found that comment a broadside at the Brumbies.. but on the other side he never played for the wobs he wouldn't know what Mowen gave up..

Great mind games

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