Waratahs 2013

[p.Tah]

If he (Sarel) had a shit pass last year, what moron recruited him?

His pass does look better this year and he would have played well in the Tahs this year he provides very quick service from the ruck.

In saying that I don't have anything against McKibben and I wish him well tonight.

 

[kbw]

this leads to a debate, is a shit pass better than no pass ?
Adam Ashley Cooper doesn't think so


Actually thats probably not true, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) probably doesn't know what a pass is .....

 

[ShtinaTina]

They knew Sarel had poor passing skills when they got him, tried to work on it, but then just kinda stopped working on it.

 

[p.Tah]

They knew Sarel had poor passing skills when they got him, tried to work on it, but then just kinda stopped working on it.

If true that explains so much about our season last year.

Did they let Burgess go because his pass was perceived to be poor or did he just want a change?

Anyway, recruiting a mature half with poor passing skills is like recruiting 3ft lock. No matter what you try it's not going to improve.

 

[qwerty51]

They didn't let Burgess go. He went.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm not convinced that any progress has been made yet.
The "expansive game" promised seems to me to involve people attempting to throw miracle balls as they are falling or while on the ground: started with Kepu and it was in evidence tonight on a couple of occasions.
Do we have a long kicker? Who is he?

 

[Brumby Runner]

The Cheetahs play completely different to the Tahs. He didn't fit in.

Maybe that's one of the Tahs big problems. The Cheetahs play to score tries! IIRC the Cheetahs towelled the Tahs last year, and on this week's results, the game next week should be very interesting to say the least.

 

[qwerty51]

Maybe that's one of the Tahs big problems. The Cheetahs play to score tries! IIRC the Cheetahs towelled the Tahs last year, and on this week's results, the game next week should be very interesting to say the least.

They won by 1 point in a comeback victory, is that a towel up?

 

[Pfitzy]

Its going to be a towel up if our forwards want to be pussies next week.

Failed to attack the ponies in close. Went wide instead and got owned.

Do they test these guys for IQ and listening skills before they sign contracts?

 

[brumsfan]

I was really sorry to see hooper leave us for the tahs, his work rate is amazing. I was talking with some mates after the match last night and someone said hooper was quiet, but when we looked at the game again and the stats his numbers were first class.
Only Mogg Speight and Volovola made more metres than hooper and he was the game high tackler also making life difficult for Nick White at the breakdown. I was gutted to see the sad face of Pocock after the game but hooper is a more than worthy replacement and after all was the wallabies best last year. For anyone interested there is a hooper wallaby debut season clip on youtube, brilliant. Also great seeing George have a run, just a shame about the circumstances.

 

[wamberal]

That performance last night was as bad as any in recent memory by the Tahs. Neither Foley nor Volavola can kick, apparently. Most of the forwards looked as though they were intimidated; wait until they get up against the Cheetahs defense next week. They were very aggressive against the Landers.

If I were Cheika, I would be telling every single "student" to leave the ivory tower and go to play for struggling clubs like Penrith, Parramatta, and so on, and learn to put some grunt, steel, and willpower into their play. Somebody like Tom Carter might have ended up a decent player, if he had been forced to play for a weak club, and learnt to take some beatings, and learn how to overcome them, and even how to be a bit creative in attack. We need our players to learn how to get their hands dirty, how to fight back against the odds, how to bounce back from diversity.

Dave Dennis' whinge after the match was just pathetic. "We just gave up, we didn't try.......etc etc" Dave, you are the frigging leader, so lead. Don't moan. And go to play for a team that needs some leadership, and learn how to do it, rather than just moan about it. Maybe Penrith.

 

[#1 Tah]

Maybe Penrith.

He used to play for the Emus - and spoke a lot about going back there in 2010 IIRC. Never actually Happened though. Kinda sums up our season so far actually.

 

[wamberal]

He used to play for the Emus - and spoke a lot about going back there in 2010 IIRC. Never actually Happened though. Kinda sums up our season so far actually.

His background as a local Western Sydney product has been well publicised. I would bet he would be a better player now if he had stayed with the Emus, and learnt how to be successful in a side that loses more than it wins. What do players learn when they play for the millionaires of the competition? How to polish the silverware?

 

[Pfitzy]

That performance last night was as bad as any in recent memory by the Tahs. Neither Foley nor Volavola can kick, apparently. Most of the forwards looked as though they were intimidated; wait until they get up against the Cheetahs defense next week. They were very aggressive against the Landers.

If I were Cheika, I would be telling every single "student" to leave the ivory tower and go to play for struggling clubs like Penrith, Parramatta, and so on, and learn to put some grunt, steel, and willpower into their play. Somebody like Tom Carter might have ended up a decent player, if he had been forced to play for a weak club, and learnt to take some beatings, and learn how to overcome them, and even how to be a bit creative in attack. We need our players to learn how to get their hands dirty, how to fight back against the odds, how to bounce back from diversity.

Dave Dennis' whinge after the match was just pathetic. "We just gave up, we didn't try...etc etc" Dave, you are the frigging leader, so lead. Don't moan. And go to play for a team that needs some leadership, and learn how to do it, rather than just moan about it. Maybe Penrith.

This. This guy, right here. I like this guy, and if there was a way to hit like twice I would do it. Thrice even - get on to it mods.

Or at least, if you're going to pick players from a successful club, at least pick partnerships.

 

[Gnostic]

Third game in.

Chieka has shown his mark IMO and the team is forming in the basic structure to run the ball and attack. Execution as in week 1 is shockingly poor. McKibben, as with every Waratahs 9 since Whittaker fails in the core skill of a 9. His passing and clearance of the ball from the ruck is woeful. I am sure Bob Dwyer would be screaming at the TV over that if he is allowed to watch the Tahs play. (I hope your recovery is going well Bob and hope to see your commentary again soon).

It will be very interesting to see as time goes on who signs for the next season. I have no doubt that the right noises will be made about keeping the squad together etc etc, but I expect to see at least half of those off contract to go and possible some that aren't off contract.

I will make comment on a few in particular -

S. Timani - what team can carry a lock that does not jump? I was amazed when I saw him take his second lineout (that I can recall) last night? He lumbers around the field hit a few rucks, making one or maybe two runs per game and the same number of dominant tackles. When compared with a lock who actually meets the core skills of a lock he rates very poorly indeed unless one is afflicted with Deans vision. Compare him to Pyle, Jones, Fardy, Kimlin any of which actually DO the job of a second rower. I watched the replay and specifically looked for Timani and he was often found "jogging" (read walking pace) behind the play. Take the one skill he is allegedly selected for by Deans at test level, defence and getting over the gain line. Fotu Auelua showed more ability to execute these skills in his limited game time than Timani has in three games for the Tahs this season. The Tahs are handicapped with Timani starting. I could see an impact role for him off the bench, but not at the expense of those who consistently execute core skills of the position. For all his supposed dominance in the tight contact he was ineffectual to the point of comedy (as were most of the others who even bothered to get in position) against the Brumbies maul.

Dennis - I fail to see what he is brining to the side. He tries hard there is no doubt, perhaps it is the lack of combination with others to form a cohesive backrow unit. I agree with those that say perhaps he isn't being seen because he is doing the hard yards. The problem is those doing the hard yards aren't anonymous. The Tahs really made a HUGE mistake when they elected to keep Dennis and let Mowen go. In Mowen they had a true leader in development and a dominant lineout jumper. The difference last night was stark.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - If there is a player who I believe has never reached his potential it is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Perhaps he has been done a huge diservice by successive coaches throughout his career shuffling him around forever so that he never mastered a position or its skills. He has great potential but sooner or later potential has to be delivered on. There are fundamental skills that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) just hasn't developed despite so many tests and a relatively long career. For instance he still cannot pass effectively out of both hands (when he does pass). Also he gets caught out often in defence. For a senior player he gets beaten regularly in defence. Mogg last night took the ball and the best AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) did was to stick out his hand, I know Mogg is very fast, but the effort was just shocking from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

So where to for the Tahs? I still see more hope for the Tahs in this season than I have for many years simply because of the game they are trying to play. I expect this year will be one of marginal gains and next will be one of strides as Chieka cuts away (will be reported that they are pursuing opportunities elsewhere) those players who will not or cannot play the required game. We have seen the start with Timani leaving and the signing of Phipps. As I said it will be interesting to see who else leaves.

 

[p.Tah]

I am sure Bob Dwyer would be screaming at the TV over that if he is allowed to watch the Tahs play.

Well that's thrown me, I thought you were Bob!

 

[cyclopath]

Gnostic The Tahs didn't "let Mowen go", he wanted a 1 year deal, they wanted longer. He left.
I agree it is a shame in many ways, but they didn't cast him loose per se.
And at the time, he was not playing anything like the way he is now. Hindsight is wonderful. His transformation at the Brumbies has been terrific.

 

[Richo]

Gnostic The Tahs didn't "let Mowen go", he wanted a 1 year deal, they wanted longer. He left.
I agree it is a shame in many ways, but they didn't cast him loose per se.
And at the time, he was not playing anything like the way he is now. Hindsight is wonderful. His transformation at the Brumbies has been terrific.

Totally agree. We were discussing this on the long, sad, hungover drive back from Canberra. We also speculated that Jake White might have a lot to do with Mowen's "leap" over the last two years -- both in training and designing game plans that fit his game.

 

[Gnostic]

Cyclo,

IMO he was playing better at the Tahs. He was certainly more dominant in the lineout taking the most steals of any player in the comp. two years running if memory serves. Even then he was developing as a leader having already led the youth sides. I still believe the injuries he suffered in the Shute Shield at the end of 2010 have had a long term impact on his running game. He is IMO the same player he always was, he is just appreciated more where he is and is a regular starter for it.

No matter what spin is put on it the Tahs failed to retain a far better player than the one they eventually kept. History is littered with instances where a short contract is desired, often for very good reasons and the club meets that wish to retain the services of said player. Lets not quibble about the technicalities of the contract, the long and short is that they did not retain the player and the short sightedness of that decision is now fully apparent. It is ironic that Mowen signed a three ?? year contract at the Brumbies. Perhaps he wanted the short contract to be able to leave if the Tahs continued on their path to nowhere under Hickey/Foley.

Surely there is something more you wish to discuss about that post then the little side bar that was the observation about the relative values of Mowen V Dennis.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Gnostic The Tahs didn't "let Mowen go", he wanted a 1 year deal, they wanted longer. He left.
I agree it is a shame in many ways, but they didn't cast him loose per se.
And at the time, he was not playing anything like the way he is now. Hindsight is wonderful. His transformation at the Brumbies has been terrific.

Maybe that's because of the coaching he has had at the brumbies