Waratahs 2013

[TOCC]

Any conversation rarely remains fixed between narrow boundaries, as there are always wider implications. Unless of course the interlocuters are narrow minded or incapable of maintaining 2 thoughts at the same time.

Lol yep this response is why I deleted the comment... It was poorly worded and came off looking as though It was directed at you..

The Tahs play a trial match and all the reviews or talking points are purely about Israel, it's quite frankly boring.. There wasn't a single mention of Bernard Foleys performance in some reviews, yet his performance is more critical to the teams performance.

 

[TOCC]

Tahs don't officially announce who the captain will be until the season launch on Feb 6. So unlikely to be the them unless it's happening behind the scenes.

Could it be the Rebels?

Isn't Delve the captain at the Rebels, maybe it's the Force..... Maybe the snippet is just a space filler with no substance..

 

[Penguin]

A.J.Gilbert Man of the Match. Well done that man, has he turned a corner & finally going to deliver on much early promise? I guess he can only hope for a bench spot at best with Hooper there, but you Tah's need a bit of backrow depth and opportunities will arise during a long season. I shall follow with interest.

 

[Quick Hands]

Lol yep this response is why I deleted the comment. It was poorly worded and came off looking as though It was directed at you..

The Tahs play a trial match and all the reviews or talking points are purely about Israel, it's quite frankly boring.. There wasn't a single mention of Bernard Foleys performance in some reviews, yet his performance is more critical to the teams performance.

No worries.

You're right, but unfortunately media reports on his first game were always going to focus on Folau. I'd be interested in how Foley went as well, as his ability to run the game at 5/8 is crucial to the Waratahs.

All things considered though, it seems that it's almost all positives coming from the match from a Waratahs point of view.

 

[Orange Peeler]

Israel Folau will always look the goods against a weaker team.
Unfortunately for the Waratahs I believe Israel will be a liability to the team against stronger opposition.

I am yet to be convinced of Izzy's understanding of the game in the following areas,

1) The tackle - what happens once the tackle has been made as a ball carrier or as the tackler.
2) The breakdown - apart from the laws I see Israel's main issue will be his decision making on when and when not to involve himself at the breakdown contest particularly as a League convert trying to play 15 or wing.
3) The rules of the game - As a potential back three player I would like to know if Israel is confident with his knowledge of the in goal area and touch line rules.

I realise that all of the above are basic concepts for a seasoned Rugby player. Israel can only master his Rugby Skills through constant game time. The question will be

a) does he have the ability to learn the finer points of the game playing Super Rugby or
b) when he is found out to be incompetent does he get sent back to the Shute Shield for further education.

It gets me thinking that his lack of desire to play AFL coincided with his stint in playing reserve grade for GWS.

I also don't understand why NSW Rugby is even taking him on when there is talk that he will be returning to Rugby League next year. The fact that there is talk of Israel returning back to League has alarm bells ringing in my ears. While the short term gain may be increased ticket sales the long term effect to the already fractured Rugby development pathway will be damaged beyond repair at grassroots level in NSW if and when this all blows up.

Please note that this is not me having a shot at Israel Folau, I hope he proves me wrong. I just hope that the brains trust at the Waratahs have thought things through to keep the FANS on all levels believing!

 

[wamberal]

On a broader front, how many potential Israel Folau's are there running around playing junior league in western Sydney because there is no junior rugby club close to their home?

Over to you Messrs Pulver, Hawker and Farr-Jones!

What are they supposed to do, wave a magic wand and create junior clubs, with all the volunteers that are needed to support them?

 

[wamberal]

Israel Folau will always look the goods against a weaker team.
Unfortunately for the Waratahs I believe Israel will be a liability to the team against stronger opposition.

I am yet to be convinced of Izzy's understanding of the game in the following areas,

1) The tackle

Along with 95% of players, and close to 100% of spectators (and all the commentators as well). Are you aware that Folau did play rugby at high school, and presumably has watched a fair bit of the game over the years?

I also don't understand why NSW Rugby is even taking him on when there is talk that he will be returning to Rugby League next year.

The Waratahs took him on, they are a business whose support base has shrunk dramatically over the last few years, mainly because of their style of play, and lack of any drawcards (like the much maligned Lote) - my guess is that Folau's signing has probably already paid for itself in free publicity. We will see what happens with the crowd support, but any improvement will surely be better than a further dropping away in numbers.

 

[Richo]

I just hope that the brains trust at the Waratahs have thought things through to keep the FANS on all levels believing!

I think the plan with Folau is to get a few a more of those.

 

[Lee Grant]

I'm glad that Izzy played well in Hobart as it will give him a bit of confidence. Apparently he played a lot at fullback, a harder position than wing because you don't have the touchline to help out on defence. Well done.

I wouldn't worry too much about the hoo-ha about him and whether he will stay in union or not. This always happens when an elite rugby league player goes to union (or in the old days, vice versa). If he goes, he goes.

You could argue that the money should be spent on dedicated rugby union players or other rugby things, but such thoughts don't reconcile with the real world of professional sport if the fellow in question puts bums on seats.

You could also argue that his recruitment may encourage some guys to go offshore, but you have to factor that in as part of the price paid.

Where was I?

The 10 invited players must have done well because that Rebels 1st half team was arguably their best available, but for Beale and Higginbotham being absent. I dare say that a few Wallabies will filter back into the next Tahs trial game and the weaker invited players will be weeded out, but the ones who stay in may be pencilled in on the futures clipboard.

I am not surprised that AJ Gilbert was named the man of the match. I have spoken about his top training form a couple of times in this thread and would not be surprised if my suggestion that he be used as a backup for Hooper eventuates. As of a week ago McCutcheon still wasn't changing direction; so he could miss a few Super games.

I wouldn't worry about what number AJ has on back when he's on the paddock as some might. He is a footie player and has reminded me of Hodgson in the last couple of years in the Shute Shield: a good all-round backrower.
.

 

[Orange Peeler]

In the West it just comes down to the plain old curse of money. The NRL, AFL and now the FFA are doing a great job of appealing to and feeding the lowest common human character trait which is Greed.

How can they ARU compete in the West by just offering a chance of hope against the reality of being paid $600 a game by just playing local Club Rugby League.

 

[Dave Beat]

In the West it just comes down to the plain old curse of money. The NRL, AFL and now the FFA are doing a great job of appealing to and feeding the lowest common human character trait which is Greed.
How can they ARU compete in the West by just offering a chance of hope against the reality of being paid $600 a game by just playing local Club Rugby League.

Greed - really, thats a piss poor excuse the powers to be may use.
a boy or girl at 6, 7, 8, 9, what is their NRL, AFL, FFA weekly pay packet - didly squat. They are creating an interest, they are creating fun, they are creating a colt following, and from the grass roots an interest and love of fun and a game is developing. Look at Auskick, my daughter came home with a backpack, a junior football, a waterbottle, a few stickers and posters, and then loved the 4 - 6 weeks of Auskick fun program

Looking at 2 choices, for an example;
In order for my boy - rugby, league, afl, and soccer last of all - but fun and his choice comes first.
Out west a dad may think, league, rugby, afl, and soccer - but fun and his choice comes first.
The work AFL puts into the juniors is having it jump from third into first place due to fun and kids choice comes first.

It's about Grass Roots, not the Old Curse of money - if it was look what we have splashed out in cash for Wendell, Lote, Rogers, Faloa.
Wendal started his rugby career in 2001 - that is 12 years ago, so the 10 - 14 years olds of the time are now 22 - 26 now. Did Wendall playing rugby influence their choice between rugby, and league, or was it what they were playing when they were 8, 9, 10. Who in the current crop of players went union instead of league because of the Del?

 

[JSRF10]

Do they Tahs make an effort to connect with kids in the West? For example they could be sending players and coaches out to schools giving out free tickets, merchandise etc. Theres nothing better for a 7 year old who is mad about sport meeting a player. Surely this is the first step they should be taking (in fairness they could already do this and I'm just not aware of it!)

Leinster had similar problems a few years ago outside the traditional rugby areas they had lost significant amounts of support to Munster. They made a huge drive in schools and junior clubs to get the young kids supporting Leinster. In about 5 years they've gone from having small support in non traditional areas to being one of the highest supported teams in Europe.

 

[Orange Peeler]

Along with 95% of players, and close to 100% of spectators (and all the commentators as well). Are you aware that Folau did play rugby at high school, and presumably has watched a fair bit of the game over the years?




The Waratahs took him on, they are a business whose support base has shrunk dramatically over the last few years, mainly because of their style of play, and lack of any drawcards (like the much maligned Lote) - my guess is that Folau's signing has probably already paid for itself in free publicity. We will see what happens with the crowd support, but any improvement will surely be better than a further dropping away in numbers.

Thanks Wamberal.

As a concerned Waratahs Fan I'm not sure what high school Izzy went to but my guess is that the two games of Waratah Shield (1 per year) he may of played over five years ago may not be a suitable preparation to play Super Rugby.

If the Waratahs diligently focused on their NSW player base which is what they are paid to do, I have absolutely no doubt that the Tahs would be the Rugby power house that the fans expect them to be. The concern is how the Tahs are using Israel to promote the game in NSW when there is a very high chance of it all falling over. It will be worse than all of the failed overseas imports we had brought in over the years. I just can't believe what I'm seeing.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

3) The rules of the game - As a potential back three player I would like to know if Israel is confident with his knowledge of the in goal area and touch line rules.

Hopefully the first thing he'll learn is that they are laws not rules.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It's about Grass Roots, not the Old Curse of money

What are the respective rego costs?
I just paid $270 - for a jumper he may or may not get to keep!

 

[kiap]

Some vision from the Hobart trial. Well, it's really just about Izzy Folau.

 

[Dave Beat]

Do they Tahs make an effort to connect with kids in the West? For example they could be sending players and coaches out to schools giving out free tickets, merchandise etc. Theres nothing better for a 7 year old who is mad about sport meeting a player. Surely this is the first step they should be taking (in fairness they could already do this and I'm just not aware of it!)

Yes, yes, also have that age groups playing the curtain raisers for Shute Shield games, the Tahs attending these games and kicking the balls around with the kids, and giving away some family passes.

 

[Dave Beat]

What are the respective rego costs?
I just paid $270 - for a jumper he may or may not get to keep!

After 20 years in the Wilderness Allambie Jets just started up again - 70.00 yesterday.

What was great, and it provides an example - Manly rugby players, and Coaches turned up to help (on a cold wet day) that is investing in grass roots.

 

[Orange Peeler]

Greed - really, thats a piss poor excuse the powers to be may use.
a boy or girl at 6, 7, 8, 9, what is their NRL, AFL, FFA weekly pay packet - didly squat. They are creating an interest, they are creating fun, they are creating a colt following, and from the grass roots an interest and love of fun and a game is developing. Look at Auskick, my daughter came home with a backpack, a junior football, a waterbottle, a few stickers and posters, and then loved the 4 - 6 weeks of Auskick fun program

Looking at 2 choices, for an example;
In order for my boy - rugby, league, afl, and soccer last of all - but fun and his choice comes first.
Out west a dad may think, league, rugby, afl, and soccer - but fun and his choice comes first.
The work AFL puts into the juniors is having it jump from third into first place due to fun and kids choice comes first.

It's about Grass Roots, not the Old Curse of money - if it was look what we have splashed out in cash for Wendell, Lote, Rogers, Faloa.
Wendal started his rugby career in 2001 - that is 12 years ago, so the 10 - 14 years olds of the time are now 22 - 26 now. Did Wendall playing rugby influence their choice between rugby, and league, or was it what they were playing when they were 8, 9, 10. Who in the current crop of players went union instead of league because of the Del?

Dave Beat,

Fun may be the reason why kids go and have a look. The reason why the kids stay is the backpack, a junior football, a water bottle, and a few stickers and posters. Something for nothing - free gifts, the kids are happy therefore the parents are happy.
However we all know that nothing comes for free. The hearts and minds of players and parents are secretly being won over by the deliberate means of the other rival codes through these free gifts, incentives, exposure, and opportunity, something the ARU is struggling to deal with or does not comprehend.

In my opinion the game of Union went downhill at a rapid rate when Sailor and company were signed by the ARU, a complete waste of time and money and to answer your question I don't believe that there are any players currently in the game of Rugby due to Dell.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave Beat,

Fun may be the reason why kids go and have a look. The reason why the kids stay is the backpack, a junior football, a water bottle, and a few stickers and posters. Something for nothing - free gifts, the kids are happy therefore the parents are happy.
However we all know that nothing comes for free. The hearts and minds of players and parents are secretly being won over by the deliberate means of the other rival codes through these free gifts, incentives, exposure, and opportunity, something the ARU is struggling to deal with or does not comprehend.

In my opinion the game of Union went downhill at a rapid rate when Sailor and company were signed by the ARU, a complete waste of time and money and to answer your question I don't believe that there are any players currently in the game of Rugby due to Dell.

So OP, you picked the 2 points I was raising.
Did we really get anything out of Del (and others),
Could those dollars be used in the grass roots,

Faloa though it is still early, i hope he is used at grass roots level, rather than the ARU thinking we stole a league player lets waive the flag and that is all that happens.