Waratahs 2013

[thierry dusautoir]

OK . . . those two would struggle to get a squad place in most other teams

was definitely joking about those two but i think pyle and carter are good enough back ups at THL

 

[fatprop]

was definitely joking about those two but i think pyle and carter are good enough back ups at THL

they maybe good enough, but not today, today there is no real evidence, only supposition and hope

 

[Hawko]

Timani is such a strange player. Most of us would define a Tighthead lock as a big fellow (even by professional 2nd row standards) who plays tight around the park, dominates the lineout, and scrums excellently.

Which Timani is big and scrums well, he is certainly not a tight player and is nothing too notable at lineout time. In fact, he is possible one of the loosest playing professional 2nd rowers in the game.

Whilst his merits are obvious (and I've listed them), I think his very contradictory skill set basically means you'd battle to find him a test locking partner that realy balances with him. Lord knows Sharpie certainly wasn't a good balance.

As such, perhaps his loss into that big for Aus rugby given the terrific variety of young locks we have coming through.

From an Australian viewpoint the best match for him is Douglas, given that Douglas is a THL who moves to LHL when Timani plays. Timani/Horwill and Timani/Douglas are our best match, but you would have to have a jumper like Dennis or Higgers at 6.

As this is a Tahs thread......, his loss would be quite devastating. We have two of the best THL's going around in Douglas and Timani, with Douglas and Dennis as the two major jumpers for the lineout. Someone suggested we should use Hooper at the back of the lineout with Timani as a lifter, and that would give us a great third option.

But after Timani and Douglas our lock stocks are very thin. Petersen is developing very, very slowly; so slowly you'd think he's stalled. Atkins is in his very first year in the squad. Jed Holloway in the EPS is even greener. Of the invited guests the only lock is Skelton and he has not yet played grade, he's still in Uni colts. If Timani goes we are left with one proven lock, so we will HAVE to buy in another lock from elsewhere next year for 2014 if Timani goes. I hope its just idle speculation out of France.

The point that this makes is that our lock stocks are very susceptible. An injury to Timani, Douglas or Dennis would be a disaster. With all our winger/fullbacks maybe we should think outside the square. Perhaps we could stick Folau in the lineout, they say he's got good aerial skills.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Jed Holloway is a talented footballer, but can you have a 194cm lock these days? Are there other plans for him?

 

[Forcefield]

What are the chances of Will Caldwell ever making a comeback? We could really use a guy like him at the Force.

Holloway is only about the same height as Brad Thorn- but since he is seems fairly athletic (in the JWC anyway) maybe it is worth looking at him as a 6/8 option.

 

[qwerty51]

He's about 197cm and in any case will be used a 6

 

[Slim 293]

they maybe good enough, but not today, today there is no real evidence, only supposition and hope

With that attitude we'd never cap anyone..........

And it's not like Douglas or Timani were two of the better performing Super rugby locks in Oz this year, but have stepped up well.

Anyways, I don't think we have any guaranteed lock selections until we see how all the performers go next year.

 

[fatprop]

With that attitude we'd never cap anyone....

And it's not like Douglas or Timani were two of the better performing Super rugby locks in Oz this year, but have stepped up well.

Anyways, I don't think we have any guaranteed lock selections until we see how all the performers go next year.

I disagree with your interpretation.

The premise of the original point was that Aus rugby wouldn't be worse off for the loss of a current test player because we have some untested depth, I found that a bizarre position. I would prefer to see more competition for spots, not less

They both haven't been selected as yet for the Wobs, so we just don't know how they will go. We may have an inkling but we just don't know for sure. They may do well, but I bet neither will be near Wallaby selection in 2013. Neville maybe, but Pyle & Carter? Highly unlikely.

The Wobs have used the same program for a few years, Wobs training squad, then the first June test, then the November test for new recruits. There is no early June Test and neither will be rolled out against the Lions without a plane crash

As to " it's not like Douglas or Timani were two of the better performing Super rugby locks in Oz this year", Timani I agree with - he was selected on his performances in the previous season, but Douglas was excellent all season as a TH lock. So while other locks will be found making more breaks out wide, Douglas was in tight, as usual playing his role, being the direct tight forward he is, a very rare commodity in aus rugby.

 

[Lindommer]

And it's not like Douglas or Timani were two of the better performing Super rugby locks in Oz this year.....

Que? Dunno what games you were watching, Slim, but Douglas was one of the best locks in Super Rugby this year, he'd be a strong candidate for THL of the tournament. His form in the few tests he played was promising, one bad test against the Bokke against other tests when he bashed quite a few blokes out of the way at the breakdown. If Kane develops his game further in 2013 he'll become a permanent member of the Wallabies 22.

 

[Quick Hands]

On the skills comments, one thing I found very interesting was that Chieka was trying to break player habits of catching a ball that was not in front of them. He said players had to trust the passer who may be throwing a long ball to someone else. If it was just a poor pass they would have to scramble back and secure possession. This also put pressure on the passing player to be more accurate.

This came off the comment that too often last year overlaps were ruined by forwards out of position in the backline getting in the way.

That they are being taught this at this stage of their careers explains a lot that has happened in the last few years.

As many posters have said, every Randwick player down to 4th grade colts knew this.

I grew up and played my rugby on the other side of the harbour and we were taught the same at about U/12s.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Que? Dunno what games you were watching, Slim, but Douglas was one of the best locks in Super Rugby this year, he'd be a strong candidate for THL of the tournament. His form in the few tests he played was promising, one bad test against France against other tests when he bashed quite a few blokes out of the way at the breakdown. If Kane develops his game further in 2013 he'll become a permanent member of the Wallabies 22.

I think we have to take into account the blind parochialism that seems to be a prerequisite to being a Brumbies fans in regards to Slim's comments. If they were selectors we'd be better suited to just foregoing the whole Wallaby thing and just allowing the Brumbies to represent us.

 

[TOCC]

For once I'm going to agree with Slim, Timani and Douglas displayed comparatively little in the Super Rugby season to justify earning a test spot but then stood up and did quite well...

To disregard other players because they are also unproven at test level is a bit of a backwards train of thought, especially those in weaker squads like the Rebels..

 

[fatprop]

For once I'm going to agree with Slim, Timani and Douglas displayed comparatively little in the Super Rugby season to justify earning a test spot but then stood up and did quite well.

To disregard other players because they are also unproven at test level is a bit of a backwards train of thought, especially those in weaker squads like the Rebels..

Whereas I thought Douglas was the Tah's most consistent and best forward

 

[Braveheart81]

Lumping Douglas and Timani's 2012 Super Rugby seasons together makes no sense.

Douglas was head and shoulders above Timani throughout the 2012 season.

It would be like saying that the Waratahs and the Chiefs had a pretty average 2012 Super Rugby season because they finished with an average of 6th in the competition.

 

[Scott Allen]

Lumping Douglas and Timani's 2012 Super and International Rugby seasons together makes no sense.

Douglas was head and shoulders above Timani throughout the 2012 season.

Whilst Timani has potential he only lived up to the hype in one test against the All Blacks. Douglas was much more consistent in Super Rugby and for the Wallabies.

Hopefully Cheika gets Timani playing tighter in Super Rugby and develops him as a lineout option - that's the 'meat and potatoes' for a lock. Without those two elements fixed he's not up to test standard.

If Douglas has another good Super Rugby season for the Waratahs he and Horwill may well be the Wallabies combination v the Lions.

If Timani and Douglas really push each other through the Super season in competition for a Wallabies spot the Waratahs will be hard for any team to deal with.

 

[Slim 293]

I think we have to take into account the blind parochialism that seems to be a prerequisite to being a Brumbies fans in regards to Slim's comments. If they were selectors we'd be better suited to just foregoing the whole Wallaby thing and just allowing the Brumbies to represent us.

I didn't say anything about the Brumbies.........

Blind parochialism?

 

[Slim 293]

Que? Dunno what games you were watching, Slim, but Douglas was one of the best locks in Super Rugby this year, he'd be a strong candidate for THL of the tournament. His form in the few tests he played was promising, one bad test against France against other tests when he bashed quite a few blokes out of the way at the breakdown. If Kane develops his game further in 2013 he'll become a permanent member of the Wallabies 22.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, because there were better performing TH locks in a few other Australian teams.

Douglas was certainly one of the better performing Tahs, but that's not saying a lot........

Anyways, he got the call up for the Wallabies and played well, so whatever.

 

[TOCC]

Gents I wasn't criticizing Douglas and Timani, merely making the point that a player shouldn't be dismissed because he hasn't been proven at test level..

Neither Timani or Douglas were banging down the selection door, but once given the opportunity they played well..

Pyle and those Brumbies locks may fit the same category..

 

[en_force_er]

Strongly agree, Scott Allen.

Timani has international bench players written all over him. He could do plenty in the last 20 the we don't necessarily want or need him to do in the first 60.

 

[Slim 293]

Gents I wasn't criticizing Douglas and Timani, merely making the point that a player shouldn't be dismissed because he hasn't been proven at test level..

Neither Timani or Douglas were banging down the selection door, but once given the opportunity they played well..

Pyle and those Brumbies locks may fit the same category..

Yep. Same sentiments here.