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Waratahs 2012

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Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Apparently Foley has done enough to keep his job!

MICHAEL FOLEY'S hopes of holding on to the Waratahs coaching position next season were looking far brighter last night.
Waratahs sources told the Herald that at a marketing meeting held at the province's Moore Park headquarters yesterday, it was announced Foley was being retained by the Waratahs and would continue for a second season as head coach.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
So first they were so horrified at the season that a late-season review was needed. The coach fronts up and says some stuff and the board says publicly, "Hmmm, we will let these next two games decide your fate!" Then a week later it gets leaked that he's staying on.

WTF? If true, this is the best indication in a while that the board -- or at least senior figures on it -- need to go. It means that all the talk about consequences etc. was just theatre and served no purpose but to make the board look active an engaged. My pooint is not that Foley should or should not be fired but that the process is childish and incompetent.

No wonder Cheika wanted an overhaul. And no wonder these clowns cared about themselves first, if that rumor is true.
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
Pretty rough to fire a coach for a below average performance in his first year when there's been injuries, it is post RWC (and maybe even post Phil Waugh, sounds like he was a large chunk of the org) and you have inherited most of the organisation as is, but then I didn't think they should have fired Hickey or McKenzie.o_O

If he can get the Tahs into the finals next year he will be hitting a KPI if there is any sense to the business plan. But then to me a business plan is a business plan, not a sports team's goals which by definition need to be aspirational.

Maybe the Tahs were guilty of confusing the two.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I agree with Richo that the review process looks like a complete charade and the decision had already been made.

I personally think that it was the right decision to give Foley a second year. I think the decision to hire him in the first place was probably the wrong one because he was basically anointed as the successor to Hickey without a proper search of available coaches. Given that we have to live with that decision, I think Foley deserves a second season to see if he can turn it around.
 
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Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Since Foley is getting a 2nd year then he should be given complete control over rugby matters. This should include making any changes in coaches and players as he sees fit. If the board are going to back him then do it right.

However I wouldn't be surprised if the board have decided to keep him on but will still interfere in rugby matters such as deciding which coaches and players are retained. I'm a firm believe that if someone is going to be head coach or director of rugby then they should insist on having full control. If results go badly next year he's going to be sacked either way. So why not do everything in his power to ensure that if he does fail it's by his own hand rather than decisions made over his head.

I still would have liked to see someone like Cheika brought in as a director of rugby above Foley, but I think he would be too scary a prospect for the board. However I think the set up would have worked better especially since Foley seems more comfortable just being a coach without all the other responsibilities that go with being head coach.

But since Foley as head coach is what we're going with for next year I'll give him my full backing for the start of next season, but he must improve things next year. As for the incompetents above him they deserve neither sympathy nor a 2nd chance.
 

Rob42

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Since Foley is getting a 2nd year then he should be given complete control over rugby matters. This should include making any changes in coaches and players as he sees fit. If the board are going to back him then do it right.

However I wouldn't be surprised if the board have decided to keep him on but will still interfere in rugby matters such as deciding which coaches and players are retained. I'm a firm believe that if someone is going to be head coach or director of rugby then they should insist on having full control. If results go badly next year he's going to be sacked either way. So why not do everything in his power to ensure that if he does fail it's by his own hand rather than decisions made over his head.

I still would have liked to see someone like Cheika brought in as a director of rugby above Foley, but I think he would be too scary a prospect for the board. However I think the set up would have worked better especially since Foley seems more comfortable just being a coach without all the other responsibilities that go with being head coach.

But since Foley as head coach is what we're going with for next year I'll give him my full backing for the start of next season, but he must improve things next year. As for the incompetents above him they deserve neither sympathy nor a 2nd chance.

Exactly right Bardon. All the pressure here needs to be on the board, not on Foley.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Heard there might be a factor to Foley staying that's not being mentioned today, Tahs are gonna post a loss for this season & apparently Foley would get a full year pay out if he goes before seeing out at least half his contract. It's fiscally responsible to keep him til half way through next year at least.
 
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I like to watch

David Codey (61)
It's fiscally responsible to keep him til half way through next year at least.
Only if you think that he's not completely fucking useless.
You still need the cash reserves to survive until his replacement turns the ship around, with the resultant increase in gate & corporate support.
If you can't afford to sack him, you definitely can't afford not to replace him.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Exactly right Bardon. All the pressure here needs to be on the board, not on Foley.
The whole package from top to bottom and side to side needs to be working towards the same objective. It would appear that there are some and several parties in 'Tahland that are working towards selfish objectives, with too many seeming to be overly interested in their own survival.

This is not in the best interests of the 'Tahs.
 

SuperGrover

Darby Loudon (17)
As they say, a fish rots from the head down.

I'm not suggesting that no fault lies with the "head" of the Tahs, but many the same thing was being said about the Brumbies last year, including reports of Larkham being a coach only due to nepotism. Now with little more than a change of coach they lead the Australian conference.

I say again, I agree that the Tahs board are not performing to the required level, but I think the right change in coaching staff would have a much greater effect.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
For the most part the only time people take note of the work of the board is when things are going badly. When things are going well the team get praised and the board work away in the background. When things are going badly the spotlight is on the board.

That's their time to earn their fee. A good board will take decisive action quickly because they'll have planned for just such an occasion. a bad board will talk about reviews and forums and use them as stalling tactics while they try to cover their own asses. When they doesn't work the scatter gun comes out and they take out players and coaches. Sometimes they get lucky and some of the changes in personnel they make work out. Then results improve and they go back to the way they were.

It's not impossible for a team with a good board to have bad results. The difference is the good board will have a plan in place and because of that they send out clear messages. Contrast that with the Tahs board sending out the message that they need an emergency review of the season, then saying Foley's job rests on the last 2 games, then changing again to Foley is retained for next year. That is a board flying by the seat of it's pants.

When something like what is happening to the Tahs this year happens then at the very least the boards of the other 4 Aus franchises should sit up and take note. They should look at how the Tahs handled it and see what lessons can be learned. Then ask themselves do we have a plan in place to handle a similar situation at the Reds/Brumbies/Rebels/Force. If the answer is no then they need to put one in place, if the answer is yes they need to review the plan and make sure it's up to date and appropriate. It's a great thing to be able to learn from your mistakes but it's even better to learn the lesson from the mistakes of others and thus avoid making it yourself.

If reports are to believed one of the reasons Foley is being retained is that the Tahs can't afford to terminate his contract early. Let me say now that I don't believe Foley should be terminated, he's a good coach, but needs someone above him in a director of rugby role. But the Tahs obviously can't afford that. Through the boards mishandling of the situation the franchise's finances have gotten so bad that even if they knew what to do they couldn't do it due to lack of funds.

The disrespectful way they treated the views of fans contributed heavily to a lower than expected revenue as fans voted with their feet and their pockets and stopped going to games and buying merchandise. Whether they own the club or not fans should be treated as shareholders and I'm not talking about the way big corporations treat small shareholders either. They should treat them like big corporations treat big institutional investor.

The board can talk about increasing corporate revenue all they like but the revenue from ordinary fans is the life blood of the franchise. With TV deals and ARU money it might not be the biggest revenue stream. However the TV & ARU are pretty much fixed at the start of the season while revenue from fans is the largest fluctuating revenue stream and therefore should be managed very carefully. Aside from the idea of basic human decency treating fans with respect also makes economic sense!

There's a lot more I would like to say on the subject but I know for many people their eye gloss over if a post goes more than a couple of paragraphs and most of the people I'd like to share my views with have probably already skipped to the next post so I'll just say that there are lessons from the Tahs situation for all rugby club/franchises but especially for the Aus ones in the areas of planning, handling an injury crisis, coach & player retention, media relations, fan relations, acting respectfully to coaches/players/fans (how they've treated Foley, Tom Carter and the fans this year should be a blueprint of how not to do things), revenue management, succession and a whole host of other areas that I haven't even started on yet or that other people are more qualified to speak to, like Bruce and S&C.

A good board will sit up and take notice of what went wrong at the Tahs and will have 4 immediate thoughts:

1. Thank God it's not us
2. Wait a minute that could be us
3. Let's put a plan in place to make sure it's not us
4. Also while we're at it lets put another plan in place so we know what we're doing if it ever is us.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
With respect to the board, they didn't say Foley had the last two games, they said the organization was focused on the last two games. After the review they obviously chose to retain him, just didn't announce it on the day.
 
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