Waratahs 2012
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
If and when! What are we going to do this week? We can afford at most two more losses and we haven't played the Stormers, Crusaders or Bulls yet. We cannot afford to drop this match.
The assumptions on how many losses is a bit flawed, the comp is longer and we just don't know how many will be enough
rugbysmartarse
Alan Cameron (40)
on a straight table standing we sit at 10th. not sure how many losses we can have and still compete, but we have now got to rely on beating all the other aussie teams, as well as picking up all our home games (including a few tough ones v bulls and saders) and trying to pick up some wins on the road. Either that, or hope for the reds, brumbies and force to fall apart. I think we would struggle to even scrape into a wildcard spot, and even then we would have an away semi final
rugbysmartarse
Alan Cameron (40)
that is (potentially) a piece of good news. It's great to have mre options, but I thought he was a bit hit an miss last year, and meanwhile Kingston has been one of more penetrative backs (has great footwork). Would you start Paka over Kingston given full fitness? (based on last year's Paka form, obviously)
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
i think the focus of getting to the semis is part of the problem with the Tahs: they should stop focussing on results and whether they can make the semis and start focussing on fundamentals and execution. If you do the fundamentals correctly and you play with commitment the results take care of themselves.
I realise they have to sell themselves and that guys/girls posting on here are probably not part of the team but there is an unhealthy obsession with the outcome - focussing on outcomes leads to the taking of shortcuts.
I agree, and apart from the Force game the Tahs have been playing some pretty good rugby
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Some of their Sharpie type ball running one or two from the ruck has been dominant. Their forwards have played well whenever they weren't tardy getting to their rucks and now and then watching opponents counter-ruck and being surprised every time. Sometimes these things happened together, which makes sense.
Apart from that and lineout malfunctions which come and go, the problem is with the backs.
I always thought Barnes was a natural Kiwi type 2nd five - a hybrid player who doesn't have the main responsibility of running the backline but can help the first-five (flyhalf) like a chief of staff in the army helps the general. He can see things a split second later that the flyhalf who is passing the ball to him and change the plan on the run. He is able to run to stop the drift though doesn't crash ball a lot like the classic 12, but prefers to start forward and draw the man to facilitate the work of the runner outside him.
This type of 12 has to stand deeper than the Tom Carters or Nathan Greys who get the ball flat to the tackle line. When he gets to play 10 he craves the depth that he had at 12. Or he could be a flyhalf like Lynagh and feels more comfortable working from there as a puppet master rather than the Quade Cooper matador putting the sword in over the horns..
But I digress. Barnes is a considerable player but he is not running the backline well. Sometimes he is so deep that opponents like the Sharks don't even bother rushing, but let the Tahs backs do all their fancy moves before they get to them having read them like a comic book.
To create deception the Tahs' backs have to operate closer to the tackle line and do things earlier. Then, even if a move doesn't work, the breakdown is a couple of metres more in front of their own players and opponents can't come rushing in so easily to get the hit in the tackle/ruck.
Barnes had this problem last year too before his injury. I was looking forward to seeing Gaffney resolve the matter and get him playing flatter but he hasn't. Also some of Barnes' passing has been sub-standard at, or even behind, the man. He's not kicking from hand well either; same as last year.
Barnes is not the only reason the backs aren't functioning, but playing flatter and passing in front of the man should improve matters: he had a poor game against the Chiefs.
As for the other backs: there have been glimpses from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Kingston and Carter breaking through, and also new guy Foley who should should offer himself more, though to be fair he is learning his trade at the pro level in XVs.
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Apart from that and lineout malfunctions which come and go, the problem is with the backs.
I always thought Barnes was a natural Kiwi type 2nd five - a hybrid player who doesn't have the main responsibility of running the backline but can help the first-five (flyhalf) like a chief of staff in the army helps the general. He can see things a split second later that the flyhalf who is passing the ball to him and change the plan on the run. He is able to run to stop the drift though doesn't crash ball a lot like the classic 12, but prefers to start forward and draw the man to facilitate the work of the runner outside him.
This type of 12 has to stand deeper than the Tom Carters or Nathan Greys who get the ball flat to the tackle line. When he gets to play 10 he craves the depth that he had at 12. Or he could be a flyhalf like Lynagh and feels more comfortable working from there as a puppet master rather than the Quade Cooper matador putting the sword in over the horns..
But I digress. Barnes is a considerable player but he is not running the backline well. Sometimes he is so deep that opponents like the Sharks don't even bother rushing, but let the Tahs backs do all their fancy moves before they get to them having read them like a comic book.
To create deception the Tahs' backs have to operate closer to the tackle line and do things earlier. Then, even if a move doesn't work, the breakdown is a couple of metres more in front of their own players and opponents can't come rushing in so easily to get the hit in the tackle/ruck.
Barnes had this problem last year too before his injury. I was looking forward to seeing Gaffney resolve the matter and get him playing flatter but he hasn't. Also some of Barnes' passing has been sub-standard at, or even behind, the man. He's not kicking from hand well either; same as last year.
Barnes is not the only reason the backs aren't functioning, but playing flatter and passing in front of the man should improve matters: he had a poor game against the Chiefs.
As for the other backs: there have been glimpses from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Kingston and Carter breaking through, and also new guy Foley who should should offer himself more, though to be fair he is learning his trade at the pro level in XVs.
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Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Not sure how you classify a kick from your 22 that goes straight up or passes behind the man as "just timing". He's got just one more week to get his "timing" right before we play the Crusaders, Brumbies, Bulls, Stormers and Cheetahs. The last two are in SA. Our backline is playing so badly we could easily lose all five and right now you'd think we will lose at least three. That's us gone for the season.
Can Foley wait to see if Barnes can pick up his game? The season depends on getting that decision right.
rugbysmartarse
Alan Cameron (40)
and what if foley isn't up to it? How long do you give him? as you say, there's a lot riding on the next 5 games - is it worth going from predictable yet experienced to completely unknown?
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
That is just a measure of how tough this decision really is. The backline squad has been built around Barnes at 10, with Hangers, who plays similarly to Barnes, as back-up. But he is not playing well at all. Should Foley have acted two weeks ago? Should he wait one more week? Welcome to the world of head coach, its a tough place to be when everything is not going well. (Ask Link.) He's got four (at least) alternatives:
- Do nothing and hope Barnes comes good. Barnes is a very good player and very good players usually come out of form slumps before too long.
- Have a "rotation" and bring Hangers in at 10 with Barnes on the bench. Hangers did not play all that badly when at 10 and he would have Carter and Foley around him who are teammates at Uni. He's played with Carter at 12 forever.
- Bring Foley into 10 this week, move Barnes to 12, Carter to 13, Horne to 14 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to 15. Radical but it might work.
- Swap Barnes and Foley, leaving the rest as-is.
Me? I'd go with option 2 and rotate Barnes out for the first 50 minutes and then, depending how the game is going, bring Foley up to 10 and put Barnes at 15. Last chance we'll get to trial something with an easy team before 5 crunch games. And the Rebels won't be that easy because they'll be looking for redemption after that horrible game in Canberra. Nuts on the line time.
I think Barnes has to stay at 10.
Our backline isn't performing well but I don't think you could say that it is because Barnes form is average and it is letting down the whole backline. None of our backs are in scintillating form. You would probably say that Kingston is in the best form of the bunch.
I think it would be more of a risk changing things now than persisting with the current backline and hoping they improve. I think Barnes will get it right soon. Horne is also slowly getting better.
Our backline isn't performing well but I don't think you could say that it is because Barnes form is average and it is letting down the whole backline. None of our backs are in scintillating form. You would probably say that Kingston is in the best form of the bunch.
I think it would be more of a risk changing things now than persisting with the current backline and hoping they improve. I think Barnes will get it right soon. Horne is also slowly getting better.
That kick ............ I wonder what was the decision process as to why, but that is different to the execution of the kick and the passing - is all timing
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