Waratahs 2012

[Inside Shoulder]

Rob played Australian Schools in 2007 and was then elevated into Super Rugby without being given any time to learn his craft in the normal development environment of Colts or Grade Club Rugby. In his debut season he played the equivalent of just 7.2 full games and missed 30.5% of his tackle attempts. Who would have known? He had already achieved the status of “great defender”.

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This an increasing problem: kids who mature early and look the goods at 18.
A look at the guy when he was 18 would suggest he was going to struggle to get to a sustainable weight for a test 13 who played in a brutally physical way - this Stewart kid from scots looks to me (as an amateur pundit) like he has maxed out his development.
Remember the photo of Horne early this season - with huge quads and ripped: my guess is that he's on his limit.

 

[Gnostic]

Horne even in his current bad form is better than any other option the Tahs have at the moment to fill the 13 spot.

 

[Sully]

I think Horne looks big because he has a smallish head for his body mass. Even now when you point out his body weight people don't believe you. I know that weights on club websites aren't completely accurate but, for backs, they are rarely lighter than the players actual weight.
Here we have a player who struggles under the burden of expectation. People believe he is a big outside centre with good attack and great defence. He's not that big. His defence is average. And he is not living up to the myth his fans have created in the hope he is the next Mortlock.
To support home need to back off and let him develop his own game. He's shown enough so far to invest more time in him. But FFS stop shoving him wallaby sides and expecting miracles.


Sent using Tapatalk on a very old phone

 

[waratahjesus]

When did Horne become the next mortlock?

The guy has a great rugby brain and plays good footy, he is in a slump now for sure but it's hardly time to write him off, as mentioned above a break or some time on the bench may be the best thing for him.

As for his defense, the defensive rates have always entertained me, Horne doesn't give away alot of line breaks, (if you watch the Tahs defensive structure Alcock didn't cover shipperly so don't even mention it) he does however drop off his tacler once help arrives and fall back into the defensive line, this counts as a miss but doesn't actually impact the game as much as the statistics say.

I think the kid is just gun shy, the longer he stays injury free the better he will get.

 

[Sully]

Don't get me wrong WJ I think he is a great talent I just think he is constantly over hyped if that's the right word.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Smith is listed at 95kgs (6'1") - I would call that a "natural" 95 kgs: he doesn't look as if he's done as much time in the weight room as Horne (6'1"). I was kind of surprised that Anthony Fainga'a was only 90 (6'0") but it might explain his uncertain test future. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is 98kgs (6'0"). Mirling Stortlock is/was 105kg (6'3"). Brian O'Driscoll is 95 (5'10") - again a natural 95.

 

[Sully]

You'd have to add in height to get a proper comparison. At a guess Horne is the tallest and Fainga'a is the shortest.

 

[Sully]

Shows how you can be wrong! Here is the info off there club sites. The BMI is probably good for nothing but I thought I would chuck it in for comparison. You can change the column order by clicking the headings.

[gtable_top=800][/gtable_top][gtable_add_row_count]5[/gtable_add_row_count][gtable_add_col=string]Player[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Height[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]Weight[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_col=string]BMI[/gtable_add_col][gtable_add_data=0, 0]'A. Fainga'a'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 1]'182'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 2]'92'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=0, 3]'27.8'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 0]'R. Horne'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 1]'186'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 2]'90'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=1, 3]'26'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 0]'C. Smith'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 1]'186'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 2]'95'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=2, 3]'27.5'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 0]'B. O\'Driscoll'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 1]'178'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 2]'95'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=3, 3]'30'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 0]'A. Ashley Cooper'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 1]'182'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 2]'98'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_add_data=4, 3]'29.6'[/gtable_add_data][gtable_end=Player comparison]Player comparison[/gtable_end]

 

[qwerty51]

lol at all the people doubting Horne someone should dig up that thread that was named after him when the Tahs beat the Reds 30-6 last year. Definitely in a form slump but in no way a representation of his ability, he'll be back soon.

 

[Sully]

Not doubting him Qwerty but he's not the Messiah either.

 

[BPC]

Not doubting him Qwerty but he's not the Messiah either.

He just a very naughty boy!

 

[BPC]

So if ex-international players are raving and chortling about yet another Rob Horne big hit their conclusion – and by extension that of their viewers - is inescapable. Namely, that the young bloke is a great defender. No he’s not and in fact he never was. He’s a big hit tackler without the body mass to sustain it.

I am also greatly frustrated with some people, but particularly ex-players masquerading as commentators, who don't appreciate the distinction between a great tackler and a great defender.

 

[waratahjesus]

Don't get me wrong WJ I think he is a great talent I just think he is constantly over hyped if that's the right word.

I agree. The problem with hype is often that the people doing so turn on the player when he doesn't live up to the standards they set instead of allowing the players to reach there own personnel potential.

I have no doubt rob horne should his career stay relatively injury free from here will end up being seen as a tremendous player in his own right.

 

[en_force_er]

Bruce, when you say 'lean muscle mass' is that as opposed to another sort of muscle mass? What's the difference?

It's easy to put on 5kg of muscle along with 5kg of fat to go with it, it's hard to put on 5kg of muscle and 0kg of fat.

The diet and discipline required for "lean" muscle is insane which is why most bodybuilders/powerlifters approach their training in a bulking then cutting faze (they don't need to be fit though).

 

[Bruce Ross]

It's easy to put on 5kg of muscle along with 5kg of fat to go with it, it's hard to put on 5kg of muscle and 0kg of fat.

The diet and discipline required for "lean" muscle is insane which is why most bodybuilders/powerlifters approach their training in a bulking then cutting faze (they don't need to be fit though).

As you would appreciate, en_force_er, obviously when I was writing about "lean muscle mass" I meant "lean" in terms of what is appropriate for a rugby player, i.e., adding 5kg while retaining basically the same skinfold measurements.

 

[Hawko]

lol at all the people doubting Horne someone should dig up that thread that was named after him when the Tahs beat the Reds 30-6 last year. Definitely in a form slump but in no way a representation of his ability, he'll be back soon.

Yeah, but the Tahs have to pick their game up NOW, not soon. Another two or three losses and we are gone for the season.

I have always thought that Horne has all the skills. The day he played Conrad Smith, the worlds current best 13, and absolutely owned him proved he has the skills. But he's had six games so far this season and looked a shadow of his former self. The question of whether we can afford to leave him at 13 when our season is on the line in the hope he might come good is what is pertinent.

My opinion is to bite the bullet and give him time to regain his form from the bench. With all the injuries we have the only way I can see to do that is to either bring in a specialist winger and move AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to 13 or to put AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at fullback, bring Foley in to 10 and move Barnes and Carter out one.

Let us all agree that Horne is either woefully out of form or never was any good anyway. Doesn't matter which. The question is what to do with the TEAM, that is the first priority. Lose the next two games and we are gone for the season (very likely). We would depend on other teams in the conference losing other games to make top spot in the conference, the only way I think we'll make it. So....., given the situation and its criticality, what should we do?

 

[rugbysmartarse]

most bodybuilders/powerlifters approach their training in a bulking then cutting faze (they don't need to be fit though).

wow, so I'm halfway to being a powerlifter? just gotta work on that cutting part...

 

[fatprop]

I thought Horne was better against the Chiefs, it was an incremental improvement, but ...... better

 

[wamberal]

I think Barnes is a bit off his best form, if and when he gets his old spark back the whole backline will be a lot sharper.

 

[tranquility]

I think Barnes is a bit off his best form, if and when he gets his old spark back the whole backline will be a lot sharper.

Barnes will forever be a fantastic test rugby player, who is mediocre at Super Rugby.