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Waratahs 2011

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T

TOCC

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Mate, if he gets injured, he gets injured.

They all play wounded, they all manage those injuries.

If they all had to be 100% fit to play, we couldn't fill the teams.

Most of the time this works, but some time it won't, just like the rest of life.

the issue which i think most people are concerned about is whether he is playing with a degenerative injury, ligament damage to a knee is certainly something which fits into that category if not handled properly... just look at peter hynes
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Just want to say again how it has proved a terrible decision on the part of the Tahs to let Palmer go. Even in a well beaten pack he has shown what a good pot plant is capable of. Certainly did better than an aging Fuse illegalities or not.
 

inthestands

Sydney Middleton (9)
Just want to say again how it has proved a terrible decision on the part of the Tahs to let Palmer go. Even in a well beaten pack he has shown what a good pot plant is capable of. Certainly did better than an aging Fuse illegalities or not.

I agree the Tahs would have done well to keep Palmer.

However I think the hardest thing for NSW is to hold onto depth. They build a lot of it, but in the end other franchises notice it and a starting spot, or even bench spot at another franchise is their ticket to the top.

Palmer is the latest, but Ben McCalman would never have played No.8 behind Palu at NSW, Mitch Inman wouldn't have got a look in behind Horne and Weeks never would have got a shot behind the current front rowers (of which Palmer was one at the time). Palmer also went early last season, which is an indication of how hard the Brumbies went for him.

At the end of the day, Palmer was behind Baxter, Robinson and Kepu as a match-day 22 prop, and for all his scrum abilities, still has a lot to learn in general play (in-the-side penalties, for instance). I love the bloke and he has the right attitude, but to push for national selection he needs to play and that meant leaving the Tahs. I'd guess, though, he will be back one day.

Given he's already in front of Ma'afu in Brumby-land, is he already in front of Baxter? In Deans' eyes, maybe, but in my opinion, Baxter continues to offer more against most opposition than any other THP in Oz.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
At the end of the day, Palmer was behind Baxter, Robinson and Kepu as a match-day 22 prop, and for all his scrum abilities, still has a lot to learn in general play (in-the-side penalties, for instance). I love the bloke and he has the right attitude, but to push for national selection he needs to play and that meant leaving the Tahs. I'd guess, though, he will be back one day.

Given he's already in front of Ma'afu in Brumby-land, is he already in front of Baxter? In Deans' eyes, maybe, but in my opinion, Baxter continues to offer more against most opposition than any other THP in Oz.

In Deans eyes he is almost certainly 5th or 6th at best. Deans wants THP's who are good in the loose, score lots of tries and who know what side of the scrum they have to stand on. Being able to stand up to a Crusaders or All Black scrum is not in the job description.

In four years time Slipper might be a good scrummaging THP, but he is nowhere near that yet. Maafu was seen to be up to scratch but appears to have fallen off the radar. Alexander is great in the loose, but probably doesn't know which side of the scrum to stand. Fuse is good in the tight but will not be selected, come what may. My guess Deans has all these guys in front of Palmer, and maybe some others.

For myself, I'd have Fuse, Palmer and Slipper as THP's in the squad, with Slipper as the young learner. I'd play Fuse in most games but Palmer against New Zealand, England and France. Palmer would be told to stay tight, hit rucks from behind, lift in lineouts and scrum. Sing the national anthem but nothing else. If he did all those things well our team would be stronger than it now is.

This is the Waratahs thread. To quote the great Lee Grant "But I digress...."
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Junior Waratahs 19 - Brumby Runners 17

This was a dreadful exhibition of rugby skills from both sides and not a patch on the same game at the same ground last year when Huxley made his comeback. About 30 minutes of light rain during the match didn't help but it would be drawing a long bow to say it was the cause of so much ineptness.

The game picked up a bit in the 2nd half when the rain stopped and the Tahs were parked in the Runners half a lot – but it didn't make a lot of difference on the scoreboard.

Runners: 15. S,Warra; 14. A. Smith; 13. E.Stubbs; 12. T. Smith; 11. P. Fou; 10. N.White; 9. N.Stirzacker; 8. J.Turner; 7. T.Tapara; 6. T.Boidon; 5. L.Winton; 4. S.Carter; 3. J.Owen; 2. A.Hegarty; 1. J.Yanuyanutawa Reserves: 16. L.Hunting; 7. E.Levi; 17. M.Hooper;18. C.Neville; 19. T.Alexander; 20. R.Iona; 21. V.Iongi; 22. J.Mogg; 24. T.Metcher

Junior Waratahs: as per Tahs website: http://www.waratahs.com.au/Waratahs/News/NewsArticle/tabid/157/ArticleID/1640/Default.aspx

plus 26. M.McCaffrey; 27. N.Seymour; 28. E.Bredenhan; 30. T.Tomlinson.

Some notes about some of the players, just to justify using a bit of petrol to get to and from the ground.

Runners

10. Nick White. This was the first time I had seen the 20 y.o. play flyhalf and he played bloody well – better than Hangers for the Juniors. His goal kicking was good too. Half way through the 2nd half the Runners got a penalty on an all too seldom visit in the Juniors red zone. Whilst the Juniors were discussing their 2012 contracts White tapped the ball and strolled over.

9. Stirzacker – the first time I had seen Zacker play senior rugby and he went more than OK dishing the ball out and once cleared the ball a long way standing in for the fullback.

7. Hooper lifted the Runners when he came on after oranges. He looked like a Super Rugby player playing in the local park sometimes, which is not far from the fact.

3. Owen aimed himself at a gap early in the game and got the pass from Zacker right on the money for a long break. I was looking for more of it but he was hurt in the tackle and didn't get back on the park.

4/5 Neville didn't get much time but he was like a blowfly at the window pane at ruck time.

11. Fou looks like a very handy smooth running player; executed a nice long backhand QC (Quade Cooper) pass in one move too.

14. A.Smith looked classy but didn't get enough opportunities.

15. Wara had one good run I remember but looked like a lost soul for most of the game; had a few clumsy moments too.

13. Stubbs had an unhappy game. Some of his handling was poor - and he was in great pain as he went off after he popped his shoulder.


Juniors.

9. McKibbin looked like one of the few players in the 1st half who looked like he had played the game before. He had some nice snipes, or threatened to before passing, which made it better for the receiver.

10. Halangahu had a unimpressive game.

10. Ben Seymour did well and his combination with 9. Holmes after oranges was better than the halves combo in the first half and the backs outside them got a better shake.

8. Lopeti Timani was probably the Juniors best – though that is faint praise. He did some big hits and covering tackles, and once he showed his aplomb by taking a high ball under pressure, took the tackle but was able to pass to a support from the floor to launch a good break.

3. Ryan had the wood on 1. Jerry Y for the Runners in the scrums IMO when he came on in the 2nd half, and did better than Tilse playing there in the 1st. He'll have to improve his handling: he dropped two passes by my count and lost the pill once in a tackle. He's a physical presence in the ruck though.

1. Faulkner scrummaged well but he wasn't against the experienced Owen for much of the game because the Runners THP went off early.

2. Ulugia had another dodgy throwing game though some of the lifting could have made them look dodgy.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Thanks for the report Lee. Sorry the game wasn't up to scratch. Hangers form must be a real worry for the Tahs.

I thought Jery Y had made himself available for Tonga or something? Wouldn't that get him kicked out of the Tahs system?
 
B

Bradley

Guest
I saw the game yesterday. Here are some comments on the players

2. Ulugia- As Lee reported a few dodgy throws but nothing on Hegarty's dodgy throws. I thought he played really good in the tight, had a few nice pick and drives.

12. Apo - Was strong in contact, made some small incisions and his defence was good. Still needs to improve his peripheral vision so as to create opportunities for his outside men.

13.- Kingston, Tom had quite a few cracks at the Brumbies but their defence was good and he was kept contained. Hmmm, not sure about this one.

3. Jeremy Tilse, This bloke scrummaged ok but he needs to improve his mobility and defence. Made a couple of poor attempts at tackle.

4. Ben Matwijow, the first time I have seen this bloke and he worked hard but he got hammered in defence a few times when taking the ball up. Needs to improve his strength and power.

5. Sitaleki Timani , I thought he worked really hard and his jumping was good.

I was interested to see former Randwick coach Mark Giacheri coaching the Tahs. Someone told me at the ground he was head coach. I was not aware of that thinking Hugh Carpenter filled that role. Carpenter must be assistant coach.
 

inthestands

Sydney Middleton (9)
I was interested to see former Randwick coach Mark Giacheri coaching the Tahs. Someone told me at the ground he was head coach. I was not aware of that thinking Hugh Carpenter filled that role. Carpenter must be assistant coach.

Hugh Carpenter is head coach and Giacheri was sitting with him.

Hickey, Foley and Bowen were also there, as was Tony Rea. Matt To'omua was running water for the Runners.
 

#1 Tah

Chilla Wilson (44)
Does anyone know the score of the Sydney V Melbourne game, it was a curtain raiser for the Rebs V Sharks?
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
.. or who was in the Sydney team?

12. Apo - Was strong in contact, made some small incisions and his defence was good. Still needs to improve his peripheral vision so as to create opportunities for his outside men.

13.- Kingston, Tom had quite a few cracks at the Brumbies but their defence was good and he was kept contained. Hmmm, not sure about this one.

12. Apo - this was his problem for Oz Schools about 6 months ago. It was easier playing for Newington because the standard of defence against him wasn't so good. He's done well to hold his own for the JWs in several games this year against more experienced competition and he will only get better when he plays grade, probably sooner rather than later, then 1st grade.

Agree about his main limitation. I hope that his coaches teach him how to make supporting players look better - adding value to them I call it. This is a common problem of star schools players; especially one in his position. If he can overcome that he could be a star senior player too.

Having said that: in several of the tight spots he found himself in yesterday and in earlier games he managed to wriggle out of many of them; just about always does. Trouble is: some tight spots were self-created.


13. Kingston - was dynamite in a couple of JW games this year when he had a step more space. Once yesterday he fielded the ball deep and ran around kick chasers to launch a good attack. Will have to learn to make half breaks out of nothing and full breaks from half breaks, but this is only his 2nd year out of school; so definitely watch this space.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Phil Waugh and Tatafu Polota-Nau on ice

* Jon Geddes
* From: The Daily Telegraph
* March 14, 2011 12:00AM

THE Waratahs won't be taking any risks with skipper Phil Waugh and hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau when they make the big decision on whether to play the star forwards in Saturday's Super Rugby game against the Cheetahs at the SFS.

Polota-Nau injured the posterior cruciate ligament in his knee against the Crusaders, while Waugh is playing with a ruptured biceps.

The Waratahs can ill-afford to have two of their key men out of action for extended periods as they chase their first Super title.

A decision on whether Waugh and Polota-Nau play this week will be made by tomorrow, when they would also be expected to train.

"The bye has been good for us," said Waratahs coach Chris Hickey. "It has given us that extra week of preparation.

"But we have said from day one this year, particularly it being a long year, that it is about managing all the players well."

Hickey said that management of players can't just happen at the back end of the season when people are tired. It has to come into play earlier to avoid players becoming too fatigued by week 16.

"We will reassess Tatafu on Monday and just see how he is in terms of that knee before we make too many decisions," Hickey said.

"Then we will discuss what our options are.

"He is a valuable player for us and if we had any concerns about his fitness we would perhaps err on the side of caution with him."

Hickey saw Polota-Nau on Saturday and said he was very positive.

"But we will just have to wait and see what the medical reports are," Hickey said.

If Polota-Nau is not fit, the Waratahs would use Damien Fitzpatrick and former Brumby John Ulugia as their hookers.

Ulugia joined the Waratahs this season and can also play tight-head prop.

Waugh did not run with the side last week, preferring to have treatment and rest the arm that he injured against the Queensland Reds in round two.

While it was feared he would be sidelined for four months, he produced an incredible effort to back up against the Crusaders the following week.

"We probably turned him around a little bit quickly into that Crusaders game," Hickey said.

"We will see how he pulls up and will get some medical advice on that."

Waugh told Hickey on Friday his arm was feeling good and he was back doing weights.

The Cheetahs lost to the Lions on Sunday morning and are bottom of the South African conference. But Hickey sees it as a danger game.

"They were leading [defending champions] the Bulls with five minutes to go and we have to make sure we come back from the bye really switched on," he said.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Regardless of whether TPN is fit to play, or not, this was always a game where Fitzpatrick should be getting his first start. Ditto for Ulugia on the bench but lets hope he doesn't have to throw to the lineout very often - nor play prop. Win-win TPN gets the night off.

Ditto for Waugh and Alcock or McCutcheon. Cutch played against the Runners on Sunday but played only half a game whereas Alcock got to play more.

No disrespect to the Cheetahs but if the Tahs, with a couple of players missing, can't beat a team without a win this year and with a poor record away from the RSA, not to mention: in it, they should be planning for Mad Monday already.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
The on the road thing is a big problem for them but the Cheetahs have not been bad this year. I would be very carfull about taking any team lightly this year.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
The on the road thing is a big problem for them but the Cheetahs have not been bad this year. I would be very carfull about taking any team lightly this year.

Taking them lightly is a question of attitude. That's in the mind, and its the coach's job to make sure people's minds are right. Given the last game performance everyone, not just Kane Douglas, should have a flea in his ear. Everyone should be on notice that the last game was not good enough and that any repeat will have inevitable consequences. Given that this message is already out there I doubt that complacency will be a problem.

Selecting the team should firstly be about the physical condition of the players and then about ensuring that the squad strength is optimised in a lesser game. If Waugh and TPN are even on the bench I will scream so loud Hickey will hear me from Adelaide. My team would be:

1. Robinson with Kepu on the bench. Benny needs game time to get him up to full speed
2. Fitzpatrick with Ulugia on the bench. Barring injury Ulugia should get no more than 10 minutes. Just a taste will be enough to whet his appetite.
3. Ryan with the Fuse on the bench.
4. Douglas
5. Mumm
6. Dennis
7. McCutcheon with Alcock on the bench
8. Mowen with Palu on the bench. When Palu comes on at 50 minute mark then one of Douglas or Mumm comes to the bench with Dennis to lock and Mowen to 6.
9. Burgess with Holmes on the bench. This not done on form, but on Holmes ability to cover 12 or wing, because I'm selecting a 5:2 split on the bench.
10. Barnes with Hangers on the bench. Providing there are no other injuries, Hangers would come on at the 50 minute mark. He needs game time to get his mojo back. If he doesn't and Barnes gets injured before the semi's then we have real issues.
11. Mitchell
12. Carter
13. Cross. This is a worry, but if he still keeps dropping the pill then Holmes goes to wing and Turner to 13.
14. Turner
15. Beale

If you want to be more conventional you could give Fuse the week off and let Kepu cover Ryan and select three backs. That would allow McKibbin to start this week and allow for more experimentation with the Turner to 13 and Pakalani option, but I would wait for round 6 or 7 to trial that with Cross on the bench. I went with the 5:2 split so we could quickly rectify things if the front row started giving trouble. Next week is the Brumbies, who are in complete disarray, but their front row is good so we need Benny and Fuse to support Fitzpatrick then.

I am assuming Horne is at least four weeks away.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I would prefer Turner at 13 and Pakalani to the wing.

Cross is OK at 12, but gets the "gits" playing 13 and just runs his wingers into the grandstand

Holmes ain't going to get a chance until someone is wounded
 

rugbysmartarse

Alan Cameron (40)
good post. Anyone know how Locky McCaffrey is going? I heard he was in good preseason form before injury. It would be good to have more lock cover
 
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