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Wallaby Watch 2014

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USARugger

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
There is absolutely no need for all members of the starting XV to be 80 minute players when we now have nearly half of a team on the bench - almost always including at least 2 players that could step into the 4/5 role if a freakish injury would occur.

Not starting/playing a player like Skelton because of the off-chance that somebody twists an ankle/knee in a tackle early on is conservative on a level that would make Dingo blush.

Using Moore as the example, if you want to compare the number of tests where he doesn't have a freakish joint injury to the ones where he does..you realize it's a pretty shit way to hedge your bets.

This is all coupled by the fact that I can't really think of a Tier 1 nation that hasn't adapted to carrying one or two units who are there for impact at the expense of raw work rate. Just from the recent tests - NZ have Kaino and Retallick, England have Vunipola and Lawes..etc

It's not like Skelton was exactly a pot-plant during his test either, he got through plenty while providing absolutely massive impact at key points in the match.

Honestly, Skelton requires far less sacrifice than other "big units" of the past have while also providing more impact than any of them did either.

I was really vocal about my distaste for Timani the other year because he was a non-jumping lock that was also shit around the field. Skelton is a "non-jumping" lock who could potentially be one of the best open-field forwards in the world within the next 2-3 years and has already achieved a standard of excellence in this regard that has eclipsed most of the forwards currently in the Wallabies.

Also haven't seen a forward look so comfortable debuting at Test level since Fardy.
 
Tomikin

Tomikin

David Codey (61)
USARugger said:
There is absolutely no need for all members of the starting XV to be 80 minute players when we now have nearly half of a team on the bench - almost always including at least 2 players that could step into the 4/5 role if a freakish injury would occur.

Not starting/playing a player like Skelton because of the off-chance that somebody twists an ankle/knee in a tackle early on is conservative on a level that would make Dingo blush.

Using Moore as the example, if you want to compare the number of tests where he doesn't have a freakish joint injury to the ones where he does..you realize it's a pretty shit way to hedge your bets.

This is all coupled by the fact that I can't really think of a Tier 1 nation that hasn't adapted to carrying one or two units who are there for impact at the expense of raw work rate. Just from the recent tests - NZ have Kaino and Retallick, England have Vunipola and Lawes..etc

It's not like Skelton was exactly a pot-plant during his test either, he got through plenty while providing absolutely massive impact at key points in the match.

Honestly, Skelton requires far less sacrifice than other "big units" of the past have while also providing more impact than any of them did either.

I was really vocal about my distaste for Timani the other year because he was a non-jumping lock that was also shit around the field. Skelton is a "non-jumping" lock who could potentially be one of the best open-field forwards in the world within the next 2-3 years and has already achieved a standard of excellence in this regard that has eclipsed most of the forwards currently in the Wallabies.

Also haven't seen a forward look so comfortable debuting at Test level since Fardy.
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Carter ? But Skelton was good I rate him in the top 4 Locks
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Braveheart81 said:
I think his fitness has improved a lot and is reasonable right now. He has shown that if he needs to play 80 or close to he can do it reasonably.

Do you really think he wasn't told before his first test that he'd be off early in the second half if all went well and to give it everything in that time?

In my opinion he's done a pretty good job of giving it everything in the amount of minutes he has.
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I agree he has improved his fitness, i don't think anyone on here is questioning how much effort he has put into improving his game and the contribution he is making in his time on the field.

Just looking at the stats, he has only played 3 games longer then 60mins and only once played more then 70min.. Its my opinion, that he should really be aiming to play 60-70minutes every game if he really wants to cement his position in the match day squad, he needs to work on a big off season and ensure he gets plenty of match fitness next year ahead of the RWC where flexibility in squad selections is crucial.
 
Athilnaur

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
We all know Test Rugby is not super rugby, that some players shine at test level while others are workmanlike, or worse. That the ones that shine have a fire in their belly, a determination to make it real. France might not have been at their best, but Will shone. He converts all that mass and energy into focused power that makes a difference. Then he's shagged. But thats why we have a bench.

Will Skelton has earnt the right to be in the 23 for the Rugby Championship, hell lets start him.
 
The_Brown_Hornet

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I go back and forth a bit on the subject of Skelton. He's clearly not fit enough yet to run out a test match and we can't expect more than about 50 or so minutes if he starts, but bugger me the impact he provided in that first test was immense. If he can do that reasonably consistently then he's worth having in the match day 23. Whether that means he starts or comes off the bench I'm not sure and may depend on the opposition, conditions and game plan to a large extent.

Fact is though, we've uncovered a potential champion here and if he continues his development he could be a match winning player in gold. One of the most pleasing aspects of this season is the emergence of a very promising group of young forwards who will only get better and set a great platform for a tilt at the World Cup next year.
 
something

something

Jim Clark (26)
Skelton to start with Simmons for mine. Bruise people and evoke hesitation in his opponents. Then bring on Carter/Horwill to play the tighter role at the end of the game where it is more crucial
 
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Train Without a Station

Guest
I think his work rate needs to improve. But it's not an 80 minute issue. He just needs to get through more work in the 40-60 minutes he's out there.

As mentioned, he doesn't need to be a work horse, but he can't be the player that other players have to run past to hit a ruck.

Bit more work off the ball, then he's not a liability, and he's physicality is a great bonus.
 
Tomikin

Tomikin

David Codey (61)
I don't think he had much impact versus the Brumbies. Thought he got catch high abit and lost the contact.. But the game was won so hard to judge.

EDIT: Probably shows his a better starter
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
OK if anyone else wants to get on this circular argument, all services stop in 15 minutes.

Tickets please.
 
Athilnaur

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
Most arguments are circular Pfitzy, they think you didn't hear them the first time.

And Barb bugger his left to right, whats he like under the high ball is what I want to know.
 
wamberal

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Skelton is still just a kid in terms of playing experience, and physical maturity. That's one huge disadvantage that our players have, compared with the Saffers and Keewees, where the school competitions are tougher and more inclusive (apparently), their players seem to mature quicker than ours, in terms of physicality and skill.

I think Link would be thinking very, very hard about the best way to get the best out of all his playing stock, particularly Skelton.


My best guess is that Skelton will be in the 23 for the First Test, but will not start, leaving the Blcks to worry a bit. He could be dynamite at the back end of a tough game, especially with dynamic runners like Folau and Beale running off his off-loads.
 
Tomikin

Tomikin

David Codey (61)
Now its settle and a good win by the Wallabies .. Does anyone else find it strange that To'omua not White kicks for touch.. I know Whites missed a couple of touches but surely we are picking him partly because of the cannon of a boot. Can't we train him to kick it out. I mean some of his kick for touches on the weekend were amazing..
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Is Toby Smith from the Rebels eligible? I think he has put together a few good performances in 2014
 
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