• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

Wallaby Coaching Staff

Status
Not open for further replies.

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
I strongly back Chieks, I think he is a good coach and most importantly players like him.

I also understand the concept of putting on a show in the media to achieve certain outcomes. His behaviour around the clown incident was very unbecoming and was not done with an outcome in mind.

Who really cares anyway? It's some shitty image in their lowest brow newspaper.

Athletes and coaches are so obsessed with the arbitrary concept of 'respect' and how 'the other mob doesn't have it'. Do you think the ABs are consulting on what stories their newspaper are running? They went fucking hard against you on the field, surely that is the peak of respect and the only kind that really matters. It's all a bit silly.

As one of my coaches always used to parrot, 'next job'.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Transition on defense was poor. That was the big thing.

ABs didn't create a lot off structured play, whereas we had a couple of good stabs.

Nothing wrong with this coaching.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Well actually, there are two things that need improving:

1) Fitness still needs to drive upwards. We looked shagged in the last 15 minutes despite doing the smaller amount of defending

2) Skills where every offload is done right, and sticks. That is due in part to fitness.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
I strongly back Chieks, I think he is a good coach and most importantly players like him.

I also understand the concept of putting on a show in the media to achieve certain outcomes. His behaviour around the clown incident was very unbecoming and was not done with an outcome in mind.

Who really cares anyway? It's some shitty image in their lowest brow newspaper.

Athletes and coaches are so obsessed with the arbitrary concept of 'respect' and how 'the other mob doesn't have it'. Do you think the ABs are consulting on what stories their newspaper are running? They went fucking hard against you on the field, surely that is the peak of respect and the only kind that really matters. It's all a bit silly.

As one of my coaches always used to parrot, 'next job'.


That's all well and good.

Dumb assed people generally believe the written word , whether it's in a rag of a newspaper or the backwall of the shithouse.

It gains momentum. The pressure mounts Luck seems to be a distant luxury. Add to that the win/loss ratios of YOUR team (and ours), the questioning of higher authority (which is sure to come sooner or later)

The assertions put forward in your first sentence are now really questionable to me.

However I respect your opinion.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
Chieka has coached more than one successful high level team.

I guess the question is, do you these separate successes were due to other environmental factors or do you think he was a large part of it? Because if he was a large part of it, he's a good coach.

I think a bloke can get lucky once and walk into an environment with great players and support staff, but not several times.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Mick Byrne says that offence is more tiring than defence.


I think that would largely depend on the balance of your team, and your game plan.

If you're going to fan out and leave most rucks alone - as the ABs did during Byrne's time with them - it probably would be.

If you're going to attack on the ball hard like England do, I'd say they're about equal.
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
Well actually, there are two things that need improving:

1) Fitness still needs to drive upwards. We looked shagged in the last 15 minutes despite doing the smaller amount of defending

2) Skills where every offload is done right, and sticks. That is due in part to fitness.

And basic skills.

And none of this is Cheika's domain really. It's the franchise coaches that are terribad and causing the problems.

They are are not developing their players properly and Cheika is having to educate them on so much that he really shouldn't have to.

Byrne is doing the rounds amongst the super rugby teams I hear - great! So who are the existing super rugby skills coaches and what the fuck have they been doing? Are they listening to this new guy? Does the position even exist in the super rugby franchises?
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Amirite,

Yes Cheika has been in 2 successful environments. He can't be a bad coach that says.

But you have to look at the environments. Leinster had failed to make the HC Quarter Finals or further only once before Cheika took over. They also finished 3rd in the Celtic League the year before he took over.

Clearly he's been an influence on that success but perhaps it helped him being in a reasonably successful environment, to enable him to have that influence.

He then went on to be fired by Stade Francais which we know is a pre-requisite to becoming a Wallaby coach now.

He improved the Waratahs from where Foley was. But he also benefited from a large influx of already capped internationals and marquee recruits (Folau) in those first 2 seasons.

We can all agree Foley would not have taken the 2014 Waratahs to a title, or probably even the finals. But had he been able to add the following players to his squad they would have been much stronger:

* Michael Hooper
* Nick Phipps
* Jacques Potgeiter
* Kurtley Beale
* Stephen Hoiles

Considering they were probably 5 of the Waratahs 6 best players (Foley being the 6th) this is a significant factor.

Cheika deserves credit for luring Potgeiter. He was an astute recruitment.

But the other 4 starting players fell into his lap merely because they had the desire to return to Sydney now they had the experience to command starting positions, or in Hoiles case, returned injured and agreed to train for free.

So my point? Clearly the bloke aint hopeless, but he also benefited from reasonable bases or good players wanting to join his squad for reasons that he did not create.

As for the Wallabies coaching. Clearly it's time for a change.

With regards to the Head Coach clearly there is not candidate who appears to be close to, let alone better than Cheika. So the change in the Head Coach needs to be a change in Cheika.

A change from the petulance and constant victim mentality. I spent the first decade of my career in construction and I liken Cheika to the Site Manager that yells alot. At first you are taken back by it, but after a while when he's yelling all the time that's just considered normal. It doesn't get a reaction anymore and loses it's impact.

Cheika is too emotional and appears to coach on emotion too much. This cannot be sustained year around. That's why first year players seem to have an impact at test level, but no players seem to consistently maintain a high level over his tenure. You can't be emotionally up all the time.

So Cheika needs to be smarter and more measured with this approach and be aware if he is fever pitch all the time there's no way to escalate things from this.

One of the best approaches I can remember from any coach that I was ever coached by was summed up by what he said before the start of the season. His words were that when people watched us train, they wouldn't know whether we had won by 100 points on the weekend or lost by 100 points. We had a plan in place that we were training to and we weren't just reacting to how we had played the last weekend. If we won that didn't mean we could go easy and likewise if we lost it didn't mean we weren't working hard enough and were going to be flogged at training to try and make up for it.

To me that is a professional approach. You may alter your tactics and your focusing depending on results but don't make emotionally reactive decisions based on a single game.

I'd like to see a more pragmatic approach by Cheika similar to McKenzie at times, where he tried to determine the best way to approach opposition.

In regards to the coaching group I think we all agree the real change needs to come with the assistants.

Nathan Grey surely must be under scrutiny. From my count the Wallabies have let in an average of 3 tries per game. That is surely unacceptable defensively and the defensive coach has to own a lot of this.

Likewise with Larkham. The Wallabies attack simply has not been capable of attacking to the level required. With 65% possession and 68% territory the Wallabies managed to score 2 tries (Giving credit for the disallowed try because that was not a fault of the attack's ability).

We have scored 2.2 tries per game across the test season and that stat is boosted up by 4 games.

Right now there needs to be consideration of alternatives and at the end of the EOYT there should be a decision made going forward based on how these two and their areas of responsibility have performed in 2016.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Cheika is the best Aus coach available, with a f*ck load of daylight between him and the next level. There is no Aus coach near him in success or experience

Simples
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
So we just accept the current situation and change nothing about it?
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
So we just accept the current situation and change nothing about it?


Change is wonderful concept, if it would actually help.

So the simple question is change to who? and what evidence is their that the current "situation" would improve?

Happy to see a change, if there is a viable option with some track record.

The only Aus coach who has a real track record and success was sacked by the ARU and is now coaching England
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
TWAS,


Do we really know what Cheika's modus operandi is? Yes, he does yell a lot in public, but how do we know whether or not that carries through to his relationships with his staff, and the playing group, behind closed doors?
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Or we consider the fact that Cheika is only the Head Coach, not the entire staff (you know, the whole concept of this thread) as well as that perhaps he needs to make some of the adjustments and improvements that he expects of the players.

A new Head Coach is not the only possible change that can be made.

And in fact I don't think anybody says this throughout the thread.

But the fact of the matter is the Wallabies have a 30% win record for 2016. That isn't acceptable, something is not right, and something needs to change.

As I hypothesize, maybe it's Cheika that needs to change.
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
TWAS,


Do we really know what Cheika's modus operandi is? Yes, he does yell a lot in public, but how do we know whether or not that carries through to his relationships with his staff, and the playing group, behind closed doors?

Veteran Ireland backrower Jamie Heaslip played all five years under Cheika and hinted his side would look to exploit the high-pressure defensive game the coach is renowned for.
"What Cheika says in the change room and in training, I don't think stuff can be repeated be he is a very passionate man and wears his heart on his sleeve," Heaslip said

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-...r-cheika-knowledge-edge-ahead-of-test/5905066.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Cheika is the best Aus coach available, with a f*ck load of daylight between him and the next level. There is no Aus coach near him in success or experience

Simples
That's true Fatprop

Once before we looked OS and EVEN that bloke ended up with a better record than Chek

As TWAS said maybe it's Chek that needs to change.

Whatever he's doing at the moment sure ain't working
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
TWAS,


Do we really know what Cheika's modus operandi is? Yes, he does yell a lot in public, but how do we know whether or not that carries through to his relationships with his staff, and the playing group, behind closed doors?


There are plenty of coaches who blow up to take the heat for their side
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top