Wallaby Backrow - The Way Forward?

[cyclopath]

Higgers and Dennis are both 6s, so I think ultimately only one of them will be in contention. It's unfortunate that Deans seems to select the best individual back rowers (at least on Super Rugby form) rather than look for balance.

I'm happy with Timani staying at TH lock for this season. But Horwill will come back next season and unless someone else really develops, we might be in the same situation again without a big strong 8. Problem is that Timani won't get to play 8 next season at the Tahs since Palu will be back.

And his younger and slightly smaller brother plays 8 - Lopeti.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It's unfortunate that Deans seems to select the best individual back rowers (at least on Super Rugby form) rather than look for balance.

Deans selects on form?

 

[Richo]

Deans selects on form?

Touché.

Dennis and Higgers were the two form non-fetchers after Palu.

 

[fatprop]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Palu and McCalman were both injured..

Higginbotham just isn't cutting it..

Who else is there?

McCalman was playing rather well for Uni a week or so ago, but not yesterday

 

[qwerty51]

He's broken his arm, out for the rest of the year

 

[Bowside]

I think the wallabies need to look for more complete players to play number 8.

The great 8's of the modern era: Read, Parisse and Harinordoquy all have much wider skills sets than we seem to look for in a number 8. I think it is a position where actual rugby smarts are just as important as athletic ability. You need a link-man, the sort of player who positions themselves to be in the right place at the right time, consistently.

I think Horwill could have been a good 8 had he been a bit shorter and faster. TPN and Alexander also would have been good 8's if they were a bit more lanky.

 

[Scotty]

I might be in the minority but I feel with Palu injured that samo is our most physical an effective 8. He has made some impact each time he has had a run.

I would start with:

6 Dennis
7 hooper
8 Samo

When samo gets stuffed bring on higgers and when Dennis is stuffed bring on gill. When Palu is back then either higgers or Dennis drop out all together.

If Timani was going to move to the backrow I would have him at 6, not 8. I am not convinced that shatz will be able to make the step up.

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree that we should start with Samo to provide some physicality in the first half.

You don't win test matches in the first 30 minutes but you can lose them. We need our forward pack to have some venom from the start to set the standard. Start with Samo rather than finish with him.

I don't think there are any obvious changes apart from that. Ideally Palu would be back and we wouldn't be playing Higginbotham at 8. Dennis and Higgers are both test 6s and were excellent during the super rugby season. Playing against South Africa will be a more even test to see how they are going. There's no point ditching them after being outclassed by Kieran Read and Liam Messam and replacing them with someone who wasn't as good as them during the season. We have inexperienced options and we have to persist with someone.

 

[Paradox]

I'm tempted to also start Samo at 8. Unfortunately Dennis and Higgers haven't showed anything at test level (yet). The ABs get so much out of Reid and Messam (or Kaino etc)

Fardy did alright at 6 but I doubt he'll ever be selected. Bob Dwyer rates him though.

When is Palu back?

 

[Ruggo]

Got to love the way players who have not been given the opportunity are being dismissed. I don't know who is broken and who isn't but looking at the Brumbies stable Vaea, Noodles, Fardy, Mowen and Fotu are players the Wallaby selectors should have been looking at. They all had form and were part of a side that showed some astute technique and attitude in their forward play.

Experience is not the problem, attitude is. The players we have are playing like fucking cream puffs. Time to be looking for players who will put themselves on the line for the Wallaby jersey and to retain it when they have it. The impression I am getting is that we are loaded with self entitled little fairy's that don't need to go the distance to retain their jersey or strive for victory.

Those who constantly get overlooked just may have the mongral and desire we badly need. We have nothing to lose including pride because we have been shitting that away for some time now.

 

[tigerland12]

How depressing that our best option right now is 6- Dennis 8- Samo

Compare that to Messam, McCaw, Read or Coetzee, Alberts, Spies. Even a full strength Argentine backrow would be better then ours.

We are desperately short on quality 6/8's right now

 

[Braveheart81]

Got to love the way players who have not been given the opportunity are being dismissed. I don't know who is broken and who isn't but looking at the Brumbies stable Vaea, Noodles, Fardy, Mowen and Fotu are players the Wallaby selectors should have been looking at. They all had form and were part of a side that showed some astute technique and attitude in their forward play.

Experience is not the problem, attitude is. The players we have are playing like fucking cream puffs. Time to be looking for players who will put themselves on the line for the Wallaby jersey and to retain it when they have it. The impression I am getting is that we are loaded with self entitled little fairy's that don't need to go the distance to retain their jersey or strive for victory.

Those who constantly get overlooked just may have the mongral and desire we badly need. We have nothing to lose including pride because we have been shitting that away for some time now.

It's a pretty big leap to take to say that the players are being outplayed because they are self-entitled fairies that don't need to go the distance or strive for victory.

I think there is plenty to lose by chopping and changing regularly. If the players who are brought in don't provide a big difference then we are no closer to getting players up to a sufficient standard to challenge the All Blacks.

We aren't going to suddenly find a player who is as good as Kieran Read. We just don't have anyone.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Looking ahead i like the look of Angus Cottroll at 6 hard as and goes all day i cant wait to see more of him next year

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 2

 

[Lee Enfield]

Wouldn't mind seeing a back row of
6. Schatz
7.Hooper
8. Aeulua

I still think Higgers should be playing at 6.

So a back row of

6. Higgers
7. hooper
8. Schatz or Aeulau

 

[AlexH]

Looking ahead i like the look of Angus Cottroll at 6 hard as and goes all day i cant wait to see more of him next year

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Cottroll definitely has potential. I am looking forward to watching him next Super Rugby season with a full year of professional conditioning under his belt.

 

[AlexH]

Got to love the way players who have not been given the opportunity are being dismissed. I don't know who is broken and who isn't but looking at the Brumbies stable Vaea, Noodles, Fardy, Mowen and Fotu are players the Wallaby selectors should have been looking at. They all had form and were part of a side that showed some astute technique and attitude in their forward play.

Experience is not the problem, attitude is. The players we have are playing like fucking cream puffs. Time to be looking for players who will put themselves on the line for the Wallaby jersey and to retain it when they have it. The impression I am getting is that we are loaded with self entitled little fairy's that don't need to go the distance to retain their jersey or strive for victory.

Those who constantly get overlooked just may have the mongral and desire we badly need. We have nothing to lose including pride because we have been shitting that away for some time now.

Fucking spot on.

The Brumbies will make even more of a name for themselves next year and hopefully we will see a couple more of those blokes, who only just missed out this season, make it into the squad in 2013.

 

[Paradox]

I really want Higgers to deliver at test-level.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I think that higgers is a good prospect for the aus back row. He made some good tackles last night but IEEEl that higgers is a luxury our forward park can't afford at the moment. Higgers is successful with the reds as he has a tradesmen like forward pack to run with. But at international level we are really struggling in the tight. I am not going pretend I know the answer to our woes. I don't think timani at 8 is the answer though. Only thing I would say is that maybe its time that deans and co realise that what we are doing isnt working and maybe the best thing we can do is just give majority of the current forwards a 'break' and bring in some fresh blood just to lift things (ie. fardy, Holmes, schatz, AWH, Aulua, Douglas, mowen.)

At this rate I don't care if we lose more but I need to see a forward pack that is willing to fight for relevance

 

[Paradox]

Timani just started playing like a good TH lock, let's leave him in place.

 

[Ruggo]

It's a pretty big leap to take to say that the players are being outplayed because they are self-entitled fairies that don't need to go the distance or strive for victory.

I think there is plenty to lose by chopping and changing regularly. If the players who are brought in don't provide a big difference then we are no closer to getting players up to a sufficient standard to challenge the All Blacks.

We aren't going to suddenly find a player who is as good as Kieran Read. We just don't have anyone.

You are right. I went over the top in my post in frustration and appologise. I think when we have tried all the cattle we have we can say we don't have the cattle. What we have just isn't working and think exploring the options given this is not a bad idea. In comparison to our opposition I don't think our players respect the significance of the Wallaby jersey. It is not just another jersey, it is a national icon and the pinnicale of Australian rugby. To leave anything on the field other than your very best when representing it (and us fans) is just unacceptable. Both Dennis and Higgers (as we are talking of our back row) are far better players than what they have given the Wallaby jersey in the last two games. In contrast we have Hooper who just gave it all as he finally got his break and was damn sure he was going to make the most of it.

I think many of us just want the Wallabies to treat the jersey with the same pride and passion we do.