Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[kiap]

I'm not worried about Kerevi getting a training bib for this week. As a big centrefield unit, he'll be running in the opposed line to the starters to get them ready for Ma'a Nonu on game night. Plus he gets to absorb some Bledisloe team atmosphere to put in the memory banks.

 

[cyclopath]

I do think Cooper needs to take the ball into contact more often when there isn't anything on rather than passing to a player in a worse position but that is a different issue and only a minor one. It's also one that will probably diminish once he gets more football under his belt.

THIS!!!!

 

[jimmydubs]

I'd bring in George Smith if there's a late injury

I'd bring him in with no injuries

 

[BDA]

4 weeks before a RWC is not, absolutely not, the time for 'development situations' solely looking onwards to say 2016 or further out.

Every spare squad slot should go now to players who may be needed for - and are credible for - actual play in RWC 2015.

I'll keep saying it, the single hardest and most critical-to-RWC-success skill to readily replace in this squad will be Pocock's. Hooper is not a back-up to Pocock. That replacement will be far harder and riskier if there's no replacement player for Poey with any 2015 Wallaby squad integration or game time prior to potentially being rushed onto a flight to London and playing with the squad for the very first time in a very long time.

Well I think Kiap hit the nail on the head. He's only there to assist the players who will be selected, and in terms of preparing for Nonu's attacking game, he's a good fit.

I'm hoping that Cheika has released Lilo because he would prefer for him to get some proper game time against a quality side.

 

[Ash]

I would love to see some stats to support the claim that Foley is defensively superior to QC (Quade Cooper) during the last three matches..that is a honest request and I am not simply being confrontational. Similarly, I would love to see some stats showing Giteau as a defensive concern. Sure he is a smaller guy but I can't recall him getting continually bumped during the SA & NZ matches. I do recall him making several strong covering tackles after more noted defenders were beaten...anyone have some stats to clarify any off this?

Thanks to ESPN Scrum:
Foley vs NZ: 1 completed, 2 missed
Foley vs Arg: 6 completed, 5 missed
Cooper vs SA: 5 completed, 0 missed
Cooper vs Arg: 2 completed, 1 missed

From memory, someone had Super XV stats with Cooper at about 80% completed and Foley mid to high 60% or so?

I would have it where Cooper's defence isn't the issue right now, although his form and lack of game time is a huge on, maybe head space too if rumours are true.

Foley's issue is form, and I think his abilities (perhaps excluding defence) are all about 80% of what you want for a Test player - he's just not quite at Test level unfortunately. I don't think we'll win a World Cup with Foley as our 10 - we could with Cooper, but not Cooper in current form. I'm hoping we could with To'omua, too.

 

[cyclopath]

Thanks to ESPN Scrum:
Foley vs NZ: 1 completed, 2 missed
Foley vs Arg: 6 completed, 5 missed
Cooper vs SA: 5 completed, 0 missed
Cooper vs Arg: 2 completed, 1 missed

From memory, someone had Super XV stats with Cooper at about 80% completed and Foley mid to high 60% or so?

I would have it where Cooper's defence isn't the issue right now, although his form and lack of game time is a huge on, maybe head space too if rumours are true.

Foley's issue is form, and I think his abilities (perhaps excluding defence) are all about 80% of what you want for a Test player - he's just not quite at Test level unfortunately. I don't think we'll win a World Cup with Foley as our 10 - we could with Cooper, but not Cooper in current form. I'm hoping we could with To'omua, too.

They are some poor numbers there for Foley. Needs a special session with Grey!
As an aside, and in no way defending Foley's misses, but I would love to see data about how many "missed" tackles actually amount to anything (across the park, not just him). I mean how many missed tackles get picked up by the next guy with little / no benefit to the attacking team?
We all look at tackle completion rates with gusto, but I sometimes wonder whether all misses are as bad as each other? I mean, obviously, a missed one-on-one 5m out is bad, but one guy falling off one where another defender puts the guy on his arse 3m later?????
Just some Monday musing.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It's a fair point Cyclo. Somebody did an article on the roar defending Beale for that exact reason.

But every miss forces another player to work harder to cover for him and puts them out of position. Somewhere along the line the team is impacted.

I'm a big believer that fly half doesn't need to be too great a defender and you should be wanting to cover for him to save him anyway. But if we want to discuss defence in isolation, clearly foley is our weakest option in that facet.

 

[cyclopath]

It's a fair point Cyclo. Somebody did an article on the roar defending Beale for that exact reason.

But every miss forces another player to work harder to cover for him and puts them out of position. Somewhere along the line the team is impacted.

I'm a big believer that fly half doesn't need to be too great a defender and you should be wanting to cover for him to save him anyway. But if we want to discuss defence in isolation, clearly foley is our weakest option in that facet.

Sure, someone has to make the tackle, and those numbers are very poor. But we often see someone just fall off one when another defender is right there and I wonder what the impact, if any, is?
On Foley, I've noticed his usual technique from past seasons to go in with intent, and low, has morphed into going in higher and falling off. He used to make more tackles, although never dominating, but now is missing the mark badly. I'm sort of serious when I say he needs a special session with Grey! No pads either!!

 

[saulityvi]

They are some poor numbers there for Foley. Needs a special session with Grey!
As an aside, and in no way defending Foley's misses, but I would love to see data about how many "missed" tackles actually amount to anything (across the park, not just him). I mean how many missed tackles get picked up by the next guy with little / no benefit to the attacking team?
We all look at tackle completion rates with gusto, but I sometimes wonder whether all misses are as bad as each other? I mean, obviously, a missed one-on-one 5m out is bad, but one guy falling off one where another defender puts the guy on his arse 3m later?????
Just some Monday musing.

Thedeadballarea did an analysis on the wallaby defence on last EOYT, and he suggested that wallabies use shooters fairly often and it is not so much about crushing the opponent, but forcing the play back inside where there are more defenders, I think Foley has been doing that and dropping of tackles. That being said I think Foley usually has good technique and good intention, but hes just a god damn hobbit and gives too much on size for basically every opponent.

Still if Cheika wants to hide players in defence I support him as he sure as hell looks like he knows what he is doing.

 

[Groucho]

I said this on another thread, but Cheika doesn't want to 'hide' players in defence. He employs a system in which the fly-half drops in to perform the role of a second defensive full-back while the scrum-half performs the role of sweeper just behind the defensive line. This pushes playmaking resources to the back, and tackling ability to the front.

Since most playmakers can kick, that serves the dual purpose of providing both attacking and kicking options on the counter.

Obviously, the playmaker you put back in a dual-playmaker situation isn't someone whose defence is a point of difference, so we won't see To'omua pushed back, for example.

In a To'omua-Gits combination (which my waters feel is our best combination) Gits doesn't get pummeled by Welsh pituitary giants all day, while To'omua does, and should be.

 

[Intruder]

4 weeks before a RWC is not, absolutely not, the time for 'development situations' solely looking onwards to say 2016 or further out.

Every spare squad slot should go now to players who may be needed for - and are credible for - actual play in RWC 2015.

I'll keep saying it, the single hardest and most critical-to-RWC-success skill to readily replace in this squad will be Pocock's. Hooper is not a back-up to Pocock. That replacement will be far harder and riskier if there's no replacement player for Poey with any 2015 Wallaby squad integration or game time prior to potentially being rushed onto a flight to London and playing with the squad for the very first time in a very long time.

Kerevi was chosen to train against the squad in prep for the possible selection of Nonu in the Blacks squad. The remainder of the players to be released in the World XV have a better chance of pushing into the 31 for the RWC.
Reasoning the ARU granted release so players can get game time before heading into pre RWC camp.
I would imagine Chieka will have a fair idea of the squad split he will take to the RWC. I would think most of the squad who played last weekend will be boarding that plane with a few selections to be determined from the form of those players in the World XV game as well as certain Wallabies during the NRC.

There is only a few spots left IMO for the RWC 31:

Props:
1. Sio
2. Kepu
3. Holmes
4. Slipper
5. [x] Faulkner, Alexander, Smith, Robinson- Will need game time during the small break after the All Blacks game in lead up to the USA clash. IMO you have to take a 3rd THP & that's Faulkner for me.

Hookers:
6. Moore
7. TPN
8. [x] Hanson- Have to choose a 3rd string hooker to the RWC. Easy selection.

Locks:
9. Skelton
10. Simmons
11. Horwill
12. Mumm
13. [x] Douglas, Carter, McMahon- Can see Chiek picking either Douglas or Carter coming back from injury as 4th choice Lock. Both proven at test level and adds size to the pack for both set piece options. Would not necessarily mean Mumm would shift into the 6 role but he would add cover with the current back row stock to shuffle around during the tournament.

Backrow:
14. Fardy
15. Pocock
16. Hooper
17. Palu
18. McCalman

Scrum Half:
19. Phipps
20. Genia
21. [x] White- Big selection will be if they take 2 or 3 specialist SH's. It will have a factor on now many Outside backs you decide to take. White's long distance kicking could snare him that position.

Inside Backs:
22. To'omua
23. Giteau
24. Foley
25. Cooper

Outside Backs:
26. Israel Folau
27. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
28. Drew Mitchell
29. Kuridrani
30/31. [x][x] Beale, Lealiifano, Tomame, Horne, Speight- If White is selected only two OB will be chosen. If he misses selection Giteau will fill that spot which could see a potential IB spot cover open up with Lealiifano next in like to take.

Next four cover options;
1. Douglas*, Carter (Super Rugby)
2. McMahon*, Higginbotham, Gill (BR)
3. Lealiifano*, Kerevi (IB)
4. Speight*, Tomame, Horne (OB)

[x] Remaining RWC spots
* Next inline pending injury/selection

EDIT: Good spotting from Benaud missed Kiridrani

 

[Groucho]

4 weeks before a RWC is not, absolutely not, the time for 'development situations' solely looking onwards to say 2016 or further out.

Every spare squad slot should go now to players who may be needed for - and are credible for - actual play in RWC 2015.

I'll keep saying it, the single hardest and most critical-to-RWC-success skill to readily replace in this squad will be Pocock's. Hooper is not a back-up to Pocock. That replacement will be far harder and riskier if there's no replacement player for Poey with any 2015 Wallaby squad integration or game time prior to potentially being rushed onto a flight to London and playing with the squad for the very first time in a very long time.

That's easy. There's no replacement for Pocock, and no way to develop one.

 

[Benaud]

Kerevi was chosen to train against the squad in prep for the possible selection of Nonu in the Blacks squad. The remainder of the players to be released in the World XV have a better chance of pushing into the 31 for the RWC.
Reasoning the ARU granted release so players can get game time before heading into pre RWC camp.
I would imagine Chieka will have a fair idea of the squad split he will take to the RWC. I would think most of the squad who played last weekend will be boarding that plane with a few selections to be determined from the form of those players in the World XV game as well as certain Wallabies during the NRC.

There is only a few spots left IMO for the RWC 31:

Props:
1. Sio
2. Kepu
3. Holmes
4. Slipper
5. [x] Faulkner, Alexander, Smith, Robinson- Will need game time during the small break after the All Blacks game in lead up to the USA clash. IMO you have to take a 3rd THP & that's Faulkner for me.

Hookers:
6. Moore
7. TPN
8. [x] Hanson- Have to choose a 3rd string hooker to the RWC. Easy selection.

Locks:
9. Skelton
10. Simmons
11. Horwill
12. Mumm
13. [x] Douglas, Carter, McMahon- Can see Chiek picking either Douglas or Carter coming back from injury as 4th choice Lock. Both proven at test level and adds size to the pack for both set piece options. Would not necessarily mean Mumm would shift into the 6 role but he would add cover with the current back row stock to shuffle around during the tournament.

Backrow:
14. Fardy
15. Pocock
16. Hooper
17. Palu
18. McCalman

Scrum Half:
19. Phipps
20. Genia
21. [x] White- Big selection will be if they take 2 or 3 specialist SH's. It will have a factor on now many Outside backs you decide to take. White's long distance kicking could snare him that position.

Inside Backs:
22. To'omua
23. Giteau
24. Foley
25. Cooper

Outside Backs:
26. Israel Folau
27. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
28. Drew Mitchell
29. Kurtley Beale
30/31. [x][x] Lealiifano, Tomame, Horne, Speight- If White is selected only two OB will be chosen. If he misses selection Giteau will fill that spot which could see a potential IB spot cover open up with Lealiifano next in like to take.

Next four cover options;
1. Douglas*, Carter (Super Rugby)
2. McMahon*, Higginbotham, Gill (BR)
3. Lealiifano*, Kerevi (IB)
4. Speight*, Tomame, Horne (OB)

[x] Remaining RWC spots
* Next inline pending injury/selection

Front row looks right - only 1 spot up for grabs and its the 5th prop.

Locks probably right, although there'll only be 4 of them. If any of your "13s" are selected, it'll likely be instead of Horwill or Mumm.

Back row pretty much locked in, although Palu may need game time.

Scrum halves - I think all 3 will be taken. But if we do opt for 2 with Gits as emergency cover, White won't be the one to miss out.

Inside backs - agree. With Lilo not playing this week, I suspect he'll miss out.

Outside backs - Forgot Kuridrani. He can take your "13" spot. So one of Mitchell, Beale, Tomane, Horne, Speight will have to be culled. I wouldn't want that job. 5-way coin toss. May be decided for them if Speight doesn't get any game time this week.

 

[Slim 293]

Kerevi and Dennis were chosen in this touring squad because Lilo and McMahon, who were in the squad, have already been selected in the World XV to play Japan..........

Obviously Lilo and McMahon weren't going to be in the 23 to play the AB's, but there needs to be cover at 6 and 12 at training............

There's not much more to it than that.

 

[Bairdy]

Props: Sio, Kepu, Slipper, Holmes, Faulkner (?)
Hookers: Moore, TPN, Hansen
Locks: Simmons, Skelton, Horwill, Mumm
Backrowers: Fardy, Pocock, Hooper, one of McCalman/Palu, McMahon*
Scrumhalfs: Phipps, White, Genia
Inside backs: To'omua, Giteau, Lilo, one of Foley/Cooper
Centres: Kuridrani
Outside Backs: Folau, three of Mitchell/Beale/Tomane/Speight
Utility Backs: AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horne (prior experience in the midfield as well as wing and thus would be used in the event of a To'omua and/or Lilo injury)

Douglas, Gill/Smith, Cooper/Foley on standby.

*like-for-like replacement for Hooper.

 

[BarneySF]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Train Without a Station]

Groucho I'd be intrigued to know what you thought of it when McKenzie used to drop Cooper back in defence. If wager you probably weren't as complimentary about the tactic

 

[Langthorne]

I'm going to have a crack at a RWC 31, with the controversial picks in italics. I think we've got to have 5 props, 3 hookers and 3 scrum halves.

Props:
1. Sio
2. Kepu
3. Holmes
4. Slipper
5. Faulkner

Hookers:
6. Moore
7. TPN
8. Hanson

Locks:
9. Skelton
10. Simmons
11. Horwill
12. Mumm (can cover 6)


Backrow:
13. Fardy
14. Pocock
15. Hooper
16. Palu
17. McCalman

Scrum Half:
18. Phipps
19. Genia
20. White

Inside Backs:
21. To'omua
22. Giteau
23. Foley
24. Cooper

Outside Backs:
25. Israel Folau
26. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (covers 13 and 15)
27. Drew Mitchell (covers 15, big left boot)
28. Kuridrani
29. Beale
30. Horne (covers 12 and 13, strong defence)
31. Speight (fast, strong, can cover 13, short of a match)

Tomane would be a worthy addition, but I think that if Chieka wants to take Cooper and Foley, there won't be room for both Tomane and Speight.

As there is limited space, I don't think taking Foley and Cooper is a great idea, based on the presumption that they either start or are out of the 23. I like Foley, but I believe that a fit and firing Cooper would be a stronger all round option. The problem is that so far, Cooper isn't quite fit and firing. Foley can play the way Chieka wants, but he too is not playing at his best. To'omua can certainly cover 10 either way. We don't have many matches left for these guys to produce their best, so it may come dowwn to how they are training.

Palu has not played for a few weeks, but the last two Super Rugby seasons have seen him in very good form (defence, ball running in tight, breakdown, scrummaging, lineout). The controversial bit is that he is not generally an 80 min prospect, so would, I think, either start (meaning no Hooper - Pocock combination), or would be a part of a 6-2 bench. If Hooper or Pocock were unavailable, however, then I could easily see Palu starting.

I have nominated Faulkner as the 5th prop (hopefully unused), but my preference would be someone who plays both sides well (ha ha), but would settle for the best available THP scrummager. I don't know who that is. I hope Chieka does.

I don't think McMahon, or Gill, or Hodgeson, or any of the other fine 7s running around need to be included. Pocock and Hooper are both included in the 23 because they are so very good (they both have all the requisite skills, albeit with different strengths displayed to date). None of the others are at the same level, but all of them would be an excellent replacement should either Hooper and Pocock be ruled out of the squad through injury.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Cooper over Foley. My argument is Cooper will (should) get better with game time and Foley having missed only 1 possible game (vs SA) for 2015 should not have any cobwebs to blow out, etc.

That and Cooper's superior kicking.

It's closer than I thought it would be too be honest.

 

[Braveheart81]

I can't see either Cooper or Foley missing the RWC squad.

I think Cheika will keep one of them at 10.