Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Highlander35]

Would assume most teams would be going with something like:

5 props
3 hookers
4 locks
6 backrowers
3 halfbacks
2 flyhalves
3 centers
3 wingers
1 fullback
1 utility back

That's what about 12 teams ran with at the last world cup, with an extra prop for the increase in bench players.

You might drop a backrower to squeeze in an extra back if you think a lock can adequately cover there, or you can drop a halfback if someone else is capable for a 10-15 minute spell, or you might see the Georgians or the Romanians squeeze in an extra prop somehow to keep the scrums to their absolute freshest, but I don't think most teams will be going too far from that model.

 

[Train Without a Station]

McMahon has not got on the park in 2015 so far. Surely he is more likely to miss out than he is to make it.

 

[Braveheart81]

McMahon has not got on the park in 2015 so far. Surely he is more likely to miss out than he is to make it.

I think it will depend what Cheika's plan is with something other than his first choice team.

If Hooper or Pocock was unavailable does McMahon come straight onto the bench? I doubt McMahon would come into the starting side for either of them so we can continue with a similar setup to Pooper.

Mumm would presumably play 6 now if Fardy was injured so I think he's ahead of McMahon there.

I think it will come down to taking one of McMahon and Palu if we take 17 forwards and both will make it with we take 18. If we take 17, I'd favour Palu to take the spot.

 

[BDA]

The big head scratcher for me is still the make up of the 10/12 group of players. If To'omua starts at 10 this weekend, and does a decent job, I'd argue categorically that we cant take both Foley and Cooper.

We only need 2 no.10s and neither Cooper nor Foley is a genuine 12.

Giteau is shaping as a decent 12, but only really if he is paired with To'omua. The pairings of Cooper/Giteau and Foley/Giteau have not impressed me.

So we might have a situation where:-
a) Giteau is unavailable, so we have to move To'omua from 10 to 12; or
b) To'omua is unavailable and we have to find a replacement.

The former is not that big an issue, particularly given that To'omua is a seasoned test 12 and the numbers on the 10/12 aren't that important anyway. The latter however is concerning.

I would have thought that we are better off to leave out one of Cooper/Foley and bring in Lilo instead. He has an established partnership with To'omua and can play very direct at 12. If either Cooper/Foley were left out it would be a tough call, but Cheika needs to make some tough calls.

Alas Lilo appears to be nowhere near the selection frame atm.

 

[Lindommer]

Well argued, BDA. In the last few years Foley has put on the 10, 12 & 15 jumpers, and he performed serviceably in all three positions. Before Folau came to the Tahs Bernard was first-choice fullback for a little while. Added to his defensive superiority over Cooper it may mean Quade doesn't make the squad.

I'm firmly of the opinion Leali'ifano is essential to the future success of our RWC campaign. I watched the test from behind the goalposts on Saturday night and Giteau crabbed far too much for mine. There was a moment in the first half when he was flattened by a much larger AB, it was on our 22, about 3/4 of the way to the eastern side. The tackle belted Giteau backwards AND HE SPILT THE BALL! Opposing coaches will direct their big boppers down our 10/12 channel all day after watching that.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Foley does not have defensive superiority over Cooper.

 

[jollyswagman]

I would love to see some stats to support the claim that Foley is defensively superior to QC (Quade Cooper) during the last three matches......that is a honest request and I am not simply being confrontational. Similarly, I would love to see some stats showing Giteau as a defensive concern. Sure he is a smaller guy but I can't recall him getting continually bumped during the SA & NZ matches. I do recall him making several strong covering tackles after more noted defenders were beaten.....anyone have some stats to clarify any off this?

 

[the sabanator]

I thought Foley's defence on Saturday was way worse than anything Quade has ever put up

 

[Train Without a Station]

Jollyswagman the stats will contradict that statement in fact.

But who's ever let facts and statistics get in the way of a good Quade bashing, right?

As for Giteau I don't think anybody has concerns about him missing tackles. I think he's extremely reliable in fact. The issue is his dominance of the collision on both sides of the ball.

 

[Braveheart81]

Jollyswagman the stats will contradict that statement in fact.

But who's ever let facts and statistics get in the way of a good Quade bashing, right?

As for Giteau I don't think anybody has concerns about him missing tackles. I think he's extremely reliable in fact. The issue is his dominance of the collision on both sides of the ball.

Foley only missed two tackles against the All Blacks. Kuridrani missed three. Foley only made one tackle whilst Kuridrani made 14, but whose counting?

I agree that any comments now saying that Cooper's defence is a liability at 10 should be dismissed. His defence really isn't an issue and certainly not in an argument where Foley is the other option.

I do think Cooper needs to take the ball into contact more often when there isn't anything on rather than passing to a player in a worse position but that is a different issue and only a minor one. It's also one that will probably diminish once he gets more football under his belt.

 

[RedsHappy]

McMahon will be important giving Hooper and/or Pocock a rest against Fiji I think. Don't want any Fijians lining them up in the ruck.

Surely if we are going with that number of backrowers, on a weighted basis of skills, experience, recent S15 form, ability to replace Pocock as a top-notch fetcher and can bring a really sound linking game as well as line-out value, Gill is the man, not McMahon. What has McMahon demonstrably shown in 2015 that Gill has not?

 

[Lindommer]

Don't think the initial squad will include three OSFs, RH. Gill's undoubtedly first cab off the rank if either Hooper or Pocock go down.

 

[BDA]

I'd bring in George Smith if there's a late injury

 

[RedsHappy]

Don't think the initial squad will include three OSFs, RH. Gill's undoubtedly first cab off the rank if either Hooper or Pocock go down.

Gill can play at 6. The gain of his replacement value for one of The Pooper plus his other values is IMO greater than the comparative gain of having the still-green McMahon (who did not have a great 2015 S15, unlike Gill who was outstanding in a shockingly coached team) as a straight 6 back up.

I'll predict this here and now: if Pocock goes down at any important stage of the RWC we will not win the thing without the equivalent on-ball classic fetching skills, the ABs and/or Saffas and/or Pommy loose forwards will successfully dominate rucks and we will lose crucial attacking speed and just as crucial, comparative turnover rate. Matters massively in tight big games.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't disagree with you, but if either of them make the RWC squad it will be McMahon who has been in the squad the whole way along.

I still think there's a strong chance he'll miss out unless we take 18 forwards. With 17 forwards I think only one of Palu or McMahon get taken and I'll bet it will be Palu.

 

[Highlander35]

In what world has McMahon had a poor season? He played all but 2 games for the Rebels, missing through injury, was a strong third option at lineout time in a team with a terrible throwing hooker and won the players choice award, to back up the U20s captaincy, Rebels rookie of the year, NRC player of the year and a Bronze commonwealth games medal in 2014.

I'm not saying he would be selected ahead of Gill if Pocock and/or Hooper didn't exist as options, but if there's a third openside in the squad, the sheer amount of time he's spent playing as a blindside, along with the fact he's been in the squad for all 3 games so far makes him the obvious and correct choice.

 

[RedsHappy]

I don't disagree with you, but if either of them make the RWC squad it will be McMahon who has been in the squad the whole way along.

I still think there's a strong chance he'll miss out unless we take 18 forwards. With 17 forwards I think only one of Palu or McMahon get taken and I'll bet it will be Palu.

BH, I get you and I clearly admire what Chek is doing and achieving, but I really do believe he has made a mistake, and a potentially quite serious one, of not breaking Gill into his early, wider squads and ideally giving him some game time even if he was subsequently not in the formal 31**.

In case of an enduring Pooper injury once the 31 are officially locked, yes Gill can be called in from wherever, but he will have had zero time with the current main squad, thus he will not and cannot be a well-integrated replacement for Poey or Hooper, and, IMO, given the criticality of having classic 7 on-ball skills in a RWC, this scenario could prove a very serious hole in our RWC performance.

I also have this dark feeling that (a) Poey is intrinsically more injury prone in 2015 than in years prior, he's had two major knee re-dos and in a playing position that requires massive knee-stresses, and that, (b) statistically speaking and given the extraordinary demands on Hooper's body in the way he plays, Hooper is 'due' an injury soon. Of course I hope none of this happens, but RWC's have a history of nasty injuries occurring just when least desired.

** Later added: this is especially true when just today we are, inexplicably, adding Kerevi FFS into the squad, this kid has potential but he is totally not ready for AB or RWC Tests.

 

[swingpass]

on the basis of who went to Japan and who went to NZ, i think the most cooked goose is Higginbotham. i thought that either he or Palu would go to the RWC but not both, with emergence of Mumm as a viable Fardy understudy and the success (so far) of the Pooper, you don't need his versatility anymore. I think now its now likely McCalman and Palu will go.
personally i think Lilo is a must to cover the 10/12 nexus, and probably only one of either Cooper or Foley will be in the touring party.

 

[BDA]

Re Kerevi, I'm guessing that's more a development situation, as was Rory Arnold.

 

[RedsHappy]

Re Kerevi, I'm guessing that's more a development situation, as was Rory Arnold.

4 weeks before a RWC is not, absolutely not, the time for 'development situations' solely looking onwards to say 2016 or further out.

Every spare squad slot should go now to players who may be needed for - and are credible for - actual play in RWC 2015.

I'll keep saying it, the single hardest and most critical-to-RWC-success skill to readily replace in this squad will be Pocock's. Hooper is not a back-up to Pocock. That replacement will be far harder and riskier if there's no replacement player for Poey with any 2015 Wallaby squad integration or game time prior to potentially being rushed onto a flight to London and playing with the squad for the very first time in a very long time.