Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Gnostic]

The reds woes stem from a lack of combination and cattle. Genia doesnt have the zip seen early in his career, but the latency of his service or his lateral movement are arbitrary points and does not negate the lack of penetration from the forwards. The reds have premised their game on speed and accuracy which relies on penetration and exploiting those half chances with speed (often started by Genia), but this fallen against combative and heavier packs where counter rucking is the focal point. And its telling because the reds forwards are lite weights (literally) and the complementary plan through the centres channel, usually delivered by the fly.and where they have been competitive, has shifted to being the only plan. And conveniently shut down last nite. Again the reds woes dont start with Genia, as much as their victories end with QC (Quade Cooper).

Really? They are on par in the tight five with most other packs and outweigh some. Unlike the Rebels they actually have a 6 and maybe an 8 instead of 5, 7s for the backrow. I don't accept that Genia's probelms stem from the forwards work, even with a totally dominant scrum and lineout his service was very average and slow. If Chieka wants to play a game similar to what we saw on the EOYT I would prefer Stirzacker before him. Apart from the passing it is the length of time taken to get to and clear the ball from the breakdowns.

 

[the sabanator]

Genia's problems stem from a lack of form, natural decline and a lack of ability to deliver good ball from the deck. His best combination with Quade was always when he was able to take a few steps, run, then deliver to Quade who'd hit an open runner, which Genia seemed to lose when he went down with his knee

 

[Viking]

I think Tomane is stacking his claim for a wing spot. Been really impressed with him the last couple of games.

 

[Groucho]

Genia didn't kill the Reds attack, twas already dead. most forwards were crushed and the backline backpeddled due to the immense pressure of the Chiefs. as a half, actively seeing your team being repelled by a progressing chiefs d line, moving forward only diminishes the time of the ball reaching the player and making adjustments. also amplifies the pressure. what is fatal in any team is the lack of basics of skills, communication and leadership (O'Connor is a primary culprit of this more recently). White n Stirzacker just aint the right cattle for ckeikaball n the WC, maybe next one

Stirzaker seems like precisely the right kind of player for the kind of game Chieka is likely to play: he's fast to the breakdown, snipes, rarely box kicks, and has a good pass off the ground to both sides.

 

[Groucho]

Genia's problems stem from a lack of form, natural decline and a lack of ability to deliver good ball from the deck. His best combination with Quade was always when he was able to take a few steps, run, then deliver to Quade who'd hit an open runner, which Genia seemed to lose when he went down with his knee

Genia has also lost his speed. There was a time when he was as fast as anyone over a short to medium distance, but now he's sorely lacking iin pace.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Last night I saw him try and take on the line when he saw a gap. He looked slow and ponderous.

 

[the sabanator]

Completely agree and I think a lot of that came with the ACL injury

 

[Brumby Runner]

You are missing the point..that being that Fardy is immune to criticism amongst you and your compatriots despite being in form far from that demanding Wallaby selection.
Beale on the other hand gets hauled over the coals week in week out for dropping a ball, or running sideways, or anything else you lot can pick out despite all the evidence indicating his positives are clearly outweighing his negatives.
You are in for a rude shock if you think Beale is going to be left out of any Wallaby squads anytime soon.
But hey, that's just my subjective opinion.

I note that you can identify the faults in Beale's game but can you give a similar catalogue of Scott Fardy's faults to enlighten me and others of my viewpoint. Lot of posters making a bland statement simply saying that he is not playing at the required standard without any back up evidence. He has been consistently playing better than other Aus 6s in Super rugby as evidenced by his contribution to one of the stronger teams with one of the stronger forward packs in the competition. I have to wonder how many of the critics have been watching all of his games and how many are just repeating a bit of urban legendry based on bias.

The comparison with Beale is out of order because nearly every poster here can catalogue his errors, weaknesses and character blemishes, and have done so over a period of some years now. Nevertheless, I will not be surprised but will be extremely disappointed if he makes the RWC squad.

 

[Ash]

Really? They are on par in the tight five with most other packs and outweigh some. Unlike the Rebels they actually have a 6 and maybe an 8 instead of 5, 7s for the backrow. I don't accept that Genia's probelms stem from the forwards work, even with a totally dominant scrum and lineout his service was very average and slow. If Chieka wants to play a game similar to what we saw on the EOYT I would prefer Stirzacker before him. Apart from the passing it is the length of time taken to get to and clear the ball from the breakdowns.

The Reds forwards overall do typically give away 30 kgs or more according to game stats. Hanson is a fairly light hooker just over 100 kgs, and the Reds backrow of Gill (apparently not even 100 kgs), Jake Schatz (under 105 kgs), and Adam Thomson (about 110 kgs) give away 30 kgs+ to some backrows by themselves.

The rest - Slipper, Holmes, Horwill and Simmons - are all pretty sizeable units.

 

[Ash]

Been waiting for Foley's handling / turnover stats. It's been a myth that he's a "safe option" for a while, he also had a pretty bad error rate on the EOYT last year.

Foley was good in 2013 super rugby, great in 2014 super rugby, poor to average for the Wallabies in 2014, and he's been average this year. If Cooper had played most of the season, I would bet his form would've been well ahead of Foley.

What worries me is that the Tahs forwards have given him loads of space over the last few weeks and he hasn't done much with it. He's had the nice solo run here and there and scored a few opportunistic tries from dropped balls / intercepts, but he hasn't been putting his runners into holes or causing issues for defences with his passing.

Foley needs to improve drastically, because it's almost a given he will be our starting 10 in the TRC and I can't see him breaking down defences, even if we fluke a game and have dominant forwards.

 

[Joe Blow]

It will be very interesting to see Cheikas first squad picked. If we go to the RWC with a similar squad to that which went on the EOYT we may as well not turn up. He is going to need players that can impose themselves on the game at the highest level against the best in the world. There are certain players that just don't manage the step up to test rugby and become ineffectual. Either they do not have the physicality or the smarts for that level of the game, or maybe both.
Fardy is a proven performer at that level, as are Moore, Slipper, Kepu, TPN, Pocock, Hooper and a few others in the forwards. Horwill may even be included here.
There is another list of forwards that just have not been able to manage the step up having been given at lest several opportunities. Without listing them there are a lot of these names being thrown around in here. I don't think they will help us win a RWC and we cannot afford to carry a team of solid Super rugby journeymen.

 

[Beefcake]

Really? They are on par in the tight five with most other packs and outweigh some. Unlike the Rebels they actually have a 6 and maybe an 8 instead of 5, 7s for the backrow. I don't accept that Genia's probelms stem from the forwards work, even with a totally dominant scrum and lineout his service was very average and slow. If Chieka wants to play a game similar to what we saw on the EOYT I would prefer Stirzacker before him. Apart from the passing it is the length of time taken to get to and clear the ball from the breakdowns.

I'll point out, that I didnt say Genia's problem stems from the forwards. I said the reds problem stems from a lack of combinations and cattle that are highlighted by a weak forward pack and looking to Genia is only a distraction.

Time and space dictate when, where and who receives the ball and his service only matters in terms of accuracy and not necessarily fast but timed service.
Phibbs and the Waratahs as an example of his fast service but poor accuracy made no difference to forward play prior to Hooper, Potgeiter & Skelton... It was just shuffled on and then kicked away cause noone had a clue including Foley & Beale. The Tahs picked up a few key players (& coach) and hey presto - Premiership..
Last nite's performance emphasised the reality of Reds forward play, weak. The Genia/QC (Quade Cooper) axis as does all halves combination rely, at the very least, on a competitive pack. This combo will also be important for Wobs WC hopes as is Phibbs/Foley.

Stirzaker seems like precisely the right kind of player for the kind of game Chieka is likely to play: he's fast to the breakdown, snipes, rarely box kicks, and has a good pass off the ground to both sides.

Yes you've only described all scrumhalves in the world including subbies footy. You'd might like to add enjoys occasional walk on the beach and dancing the nite away

 

[Dazzling]

The Reds forwards overall do typically give away 30 kgs or more according to game stats. Hanson is a fairly light hooker just over 100 kgs, and the Reds backrow of Gill (apparently not even 100 kgs), Jake Schatz (under 105 kgs), and Adam Thomson (about 110 kgs) give away 30 kgs+ to some backrows by themselves.

The rest - Slipper, Holmes, Horwill and Simmons - are all pretty sizeable units.

May be that's the case and I assume you mean 30kgs in total across the backrow but it was noticeable once Tui came on there was a bit more forward momentum and crossing of the gain line. I'd say the issue is dynamism with the current backrow. I'm not a Reds fan but I did have a real sinking feeling after that period in the first half when they had all the possession and territory and nothing to show for it.

 

[Groucho]

Yes you've only described all scrumhalves in the world including subbies footy. You'd might like to add enjoys occasional walk on the beach and dancing the nite away

Really? Then we need some of those subbies halfbacks is the national setup. Most of our recent international offerings haven't been able to pass off the ground at all, let alone both sides.

 

[Tex]

Genia can do all of that, just not as well.

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[TOCC]

I'm not bagging Fardy, I just don't think he has been playing good enough to justify this 'automatic selection' that people keep going on about..

In my opinion he isn't an automatic selection and the blindside flanker position is very much up for grabs.


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[TOCC]

I note that you can identify the faults in Beale's game but can you give a similar catalogue of Scott Fardy's faults to enlighten me and others of my viewpoint. Lot of posters making a bland statement simply saying that he is not playing at the required standard without any back up evidence. He has been consistently playing better than other Aus 6s in Super rugby as evidenced by his contribution to one of the stronger teams with one of the stronger forward packs in the competition..

You're kidding right? Go back a few pages and there is stat breakdown which has underwhelming figures for Fardy. Feel free to go through those stats and highlight what sets him up as Australia's best no 6.

Your suggestion that playing in a strong forward pack is 'evidence' of a players ability had some obvious flaws.


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[barbarian]

I note that you can identify the faults in Beale's game but can you give a similar catalogue of Scott Fardy's faults to enlighten me and others of my viewpoint. Lot of posters making a bland statement simply saying that he is not playing at the required standard without any back up evidence. He has been consistently playing better than other Aus 6s in Super rugby as evidenced by his contribution to one of the stronger teams with one of the stronger forward packs in the competition. I have to wonder how many of the critics have been watching all of his games and how many are just repeating a bit of urban legendry based on bias.

So wait a second. The people questioning Fardy's form need to provide evidence (as TOCC points out, they have), and yet to prove he's in good form you cite 'his contribution to one of the stronger teams with one of the stronger forward packs in the competition'.

That's not evidence at all, just a vague statement. And by that statement you could make strong Wallaby cases for Dave Dennis and Benn Robinson.

To my eye he is not having the impact with ball in hand that he used to. He's not making big hits or displaying the level of physicality being shown by guys like McCalman and McMahon.
.

 

[KOB1987]

I note that you can identify the faults in Beale's game but can you give a similar catalogue of Scott Fardy's faults to enlighten me and others of my viewpoint. Lot of posters making a bland statement simply saying that he is not playing at the required standard without any back up evidence. He has been consistently playing better than other Aus 6s in Super rugby as evidenced by his contribution to one of the stronger teams with one of the stronger forward packs in the competition. I have to wonder how many of the critics have been watching all of his games and how many are just repeating a bit of urban legendry based on bias.

The comparison with Beale is out of order because nearly every poster here can catalogue his errors, weaknesses and character blemishes, and have done so over a period of some years now. Nevertheless, I will not be surprised but will be extremely disappointed if he makes the RWC squad.

OK since you asked:
Fardy's best stat is lineouts won on own throw where he is ranked 8th in the comp. His next 'best' stat is for penalties conceded where he is ranked 16th in the comp. Probably his biggest strength is in the area of turnovers won where he is ranked 17th. His next best stats are for tackles made and lineouts stolen but he is only ranked 35th and 50th respectively.His worst 3 stats are offloads ( he has made 1 which ranks him 385th), defenders beaten (298th) and loose balls collected (238th). I would have thought those 3 areas should be hallmarks of a good 6.

If you read my prior posts I am not suggesting he won't or shouldn't be selected. I'm only agreeing with many others here that he doesn't demand a mortgage on the 6 jersey. Similarly I am not advocating for Beale to be selected, I think the best I have him anywhere in this thread is bracketed for a bench spot.

 

[Ruggo]

So wait a second. The people questioning Fardy's form need to provide evidence (as TOCC points out, they have), and yet to prove he's in good form you cite 'his contribution to one of the stronger teams with one of the stronger forward packs in the competition'.

That's not evidence at all, just a vague statement. And by that statement you could make strong Wallaby cases for Dave Dennis and Benn Robinson.

To my eye he is not having the impact with ball in hand that he used to. He's not making big hits or displaying the level of physicality being shown by guys like McCalman and McMahon.
.

Forget about naming players for a second and let's ask ourselves what we want out of a Wallaby six, also taking into account how it forms the dynamic of a pack as a whole?

Personally I think we will need a lineout tall if Skelton is one of the locks in the starting 15. Who is the No. 8 going to be and what dynamic will they add to the pack as a unit. Palu, Higgers and McCalman are all very different players for example.

I am not saying what is right or wrong, just that the dynamic is the bigger question than the player who fills the spot.

Oh and it's good we have so many players in the mix.