Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[barbarian]

And I just don't get all the raves about Ben McC. He is a workhorse, no doubt, but his impact in a game, especially against top opposition leaves a lot to be desired. He may play a test in the RC if he is fit, but I can't see him really having time in the RWC. Ben will not win us a test match, but someone like Higgers at 8 certainly can.

This is such weird logic to me, and honestly sounds like someone who made up their mind about McCalman back in 2013.

He was a standout on the EOYT and has just as much claim to a spot in the Wallaby backrow as Fardy does, if not more.
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[Beefcake]

I get it, u dont like Genia...
but the reasons you've put forward for his lateral movement killing the game is rubbish at best... every player from u6's upwards faces those quandaries...

None have better and more accurate service than Genia, from a pure hb lens.. His running hasnt been great, nor has his pack given any consistent dominance at any time this season or since 2011...

 

[Slim 293]

McCalman is definitely our best alternative to Palu, and would be one of the 4 backrowers along with Pocock, Hooper and Fardy that in my opinion should be guaranteed a spot at the World Cup............

 

[Slim 293]

Beefcake, I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make about U6's and Genia........... but I'm pretty certain it doesn't help his case?

 

[Dumbledore]

Can we please stop with the Coachball? It's just the worst.

That said, I can't really think of too many reasons why Cheika wouldn't be looking at White and Stirzaker. They're both talented, if incomplete, players. A good coach like Cheika will back himself to get the best of players like that.

Genia has been a complete flake all year, good games chased by rubbish. History is on his side but it's disappearing into the lights pretty quickly.

Phipps is comfortably the best, and safest, choice at the moment. After him it's choose your poison.

 

[Brumby Runner]

This is such weird logic to me, and honestly sounds like someone who made up their mind about McCalman back in 2013.

He was a standout on the EOYT and has just as much claim to a spot in the Wallaby backrow as Fardy does, if not more.
.

I watch the game and make my assessments on players as I see them, rather than depending on stats, made up or published, as they just don't give any clue to the quality of the involvements. It is my judgement, as worthy as anyone else's, that Ben McCalman has very little impact in his many involvements in a game. To be honest, even in this week's game, he was being outplayed by Ita Vaea before he went off with injury, but I suppose that can be rationalised as being the result of the Brumbies having the dominant forward pack.

I don't accept that Ben was a standout in the EOYT games. No-one was, I might add. The pack as a whole was pretty bloody awful on that tour and Ben was no better than the others.

 

[KOB1987]

Ha ha ha. Equating Fardy to Beale is just so far off the mark, it is laughable.

You are missing the point..that being that Fardy is immune to criticism amongst you and your compatriots despite being in form far from that demanding Wallaby selection.
Beale on the other hand gets hauled over the coals week in week out for dropping a ball, or running sideways, or anything else you lot can pick out despite all the evidence indicating his positives are clearly outweighing his negatives.
You are in for a rude shock if you think Beale is going to be left out of any Wallaby squads anytime soon.
But hey, that's just my subjective opinion.

 

[Slim 293]

KOB, what's this evidence that Beale's positives outweigh the negatives?

If we're going back to the use of raw stats, he leads the tournament for handling errors and turnovers, and he misses over half of his tackles.

 

[cyclopath]

I get it, u dont like Genia.
but the reasons you've put forward for his lateral movement killing the game is rubbish at best. every player from u6's upwards faces those quandaries.

None have better and more accurate service than Genia, from a pure hb lens.. His running hasnt been great, nor has his pack given any consistent dominance at any time this season or since 2011.

No, his pass is good. But the service comes after a pregnant pause looking where to throw it, and often several sideways hop-steps. Now whether that is all down to him (not really) or others (to a fair degree), his service lately is not the best going. He is not at 2011 standard. The side-stepping is not forced on him, the uncertainty where to pass is. He can at least partly fix these issues.
How he would go behind a pack with lots of go forward - we don't know at the moment, which doesn't help his cause.

 

[Slim 293]

I mostly agree, but I don't think you can entirely lay blame on his forward pack as there were times last night when the Reds were going forward and he still went backwards/sideways with indecision.............

There was one really bad play in particularly where he got caught with the ball 5m out from the Chiefs line, and then the next minute the Chiefs are taking a shot at penalty at the other end of the field...........

Clearly though the coaching is a big part of the problem.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It was frustrating last night the Reds inability to use, or even maintain front foot ball. Within a couple of phases, somebody would manage to slow it down. I consider Genia a huge culprit.

 

[Highlander35]

If everybody's fit, I don't see a place for Dennis. Ignoring the two Opensides, theres gonna be 8 other locks and backrowers.

Simmons, Skelton, Palu, McCalman and Fardy are almost certainties. Leaves 3 spots, probably 2 locks and another backrower. Jones will claim the first lock spot on the basis of form. Higgenbotham will claim the other backrow spot, he's timed his run of form virtually to perfection.

I think with Jones and Fardy already there, Cheika won't gamble with a 3rd short lock, and will choose one of Carter, Horwill or Coleman, each of whom have issues (injury, form and inexperience respectively) but are more appropriate locking options at test level in terms of size.

However, if any of Jones, Fardy, McCalman, Palu or Higgenbotham find themselves injured, Dennis will be in.

 

[KOB1987]

Slim, I dont know what your source is but the 2 apps I am looking at have him at 17/18 in the tournament for both handling errors and turnovers. There are several big names ahead of him in both categories. He is second highest in the comp for the number of carries. Logic suggests that if you have the ball more than almost everyone else you are vulnerable to making more mistakes.

We all know tackling isn't his strong point. The 4 players that have missed more than him are also 10s or 12s.

The areas where he stands out as being amongst the best in the comp are offloads, loose balls collected, try assists, metres gained and to a lesser extent but still impressive are clean breaks and defenders beaten.

Again I'm not out to defend him excessively but I note that the stats you mentioned are his bad ones, no mention of the good ones.


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[Slim 293]

I'm looking at the Fox Sports stats -

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/team/player?playerid=1417

He leads the comp in turnovers (22) and handling errors (19)...........

His offloads are good (29), as is line break assists (12), but everything else you list there he's far from being "amongst the best in the comp"............

In fact, when it comes to line break assists and try assists he's bested by Nic White who is actually up there amongst the best.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Slim the vodacom rugby app has 18 players higher on the handling errors list. But 1st is 28 and Beale is 21 on that list, so in that context, it's right up there. Most importantly, the supposedly "safe" Bernard Foley has 26.

Interestingly the top of that list is Folau.

 

[the sabanator]

Beale is an odd situation. I simply don't know where to pick him in the Wallabies. He slots into 12 at the Tahs because Folau and Foley are better than him at his preferred positions, but I'd have him at very best Australia's 3rd best 12. I'd rather Cooper/Foley as 10 cover if Foley/Cooper starts and I'd rather AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or JOC (James O'Connor) covers 15 then Beale. All in all I can't see a spot for him in the 31 but who knows.

You can take 22 turnovers and 19 handling errors when he's making 12 line break assists and 29 offloads in Super Rugby, but that's just a killer at test level.

 

[Ruggo]

So Dennis is out of the 6 mix? I can't see him missing the Squad considering the number of positions he covers

Dennis has experience on his side and I think he has had an outstanding season. Tamani is the player I see him competing with as the cover the same positions.

Fardy will walk into the 6 Jersey on recent Wallaby form alone. He has been good and the big thing in Fardy's favor is his ability as a quality tall at lineout time. With Speculation of what the locking combination will look like, he is likely to be one of the primary jumping options.

 

[Beefcake]

The reds woes stem from a lack of combination and cattle. Genia doesnt have the zip seen early in his career, but the latency of his service or his lateral movement are arbitrary points and does not negate the lack of penetration from the forwards. The reds have premised their game on speed and accuracy which relies on penetration and exploiting those half chances with speed (often started by Genia), but this fallen against combative and heavier packs where counter rucking is the focal point. And its telling because the reds forwards are lite weights (literally) and the complementary plan through the centres channel, usually delivered by the fly...and where they have been competitive, has shifted to being the only plan. And conveniently shut down last nite. Again the reds woes dont start with Genia, as much as their victories end with QC (Quade Cooper).

 

[Train Without a Station]

Also to update, Foley has 22 missed tackles out of 80 attempts.

Cooper is 2 from 24 attempts.

Beale had missed 28 tackles from 67 attempts and is 5th highest. He is 2nd in offloads and carries. Though he's 38th in clean breaks and 54th in defenders beaten. He's 15th on try assists. But it's not a good stat to look at as he only has 5th. One good game can skew this stat it seems.

 

[BDA]

i actually thought Beale had one of his better games last night. Last night's game was quite open and unstructured at times and that seems to suit beale. He's handy when he has time and space to counter. These are reasons he's more of a 15 than a 12 for the wallabies.

Unfortunately his weakest attributes are also the attributes we need first and foremost from our 12, namely strong defence and ball security. His ball security in contact is, let's be honest, shithouse, and his defence is weak enough to make him an obvious target. Considering the likely strengths and tactics of our opposition at the WC, I just don't want to see him at 12.

That being said I think he'd be a decent replacement for Folau at 15 and has some utility value off the bench. So i think he's still on the cusp of selection.

Plus Chieka is apparently best buds with him. So he's probably a certainty.