Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[GaffaCHinO]

How many times has Coleman started for the Force? How many minutes of game time has he had?

Surely, if he is all that good (and I am not saying he is not a good prospect - I have just not seen much of him) he would be starting, and playing at least 60 minutes every week?

Dwyer is still dining out on his selection of Phil Kearns from club reserve grade into a starting Wallabies jersey. Times have changed since then.

You could say the same thing for Skelton though.

Wykes and Steenkamp are 2 very decent super rugby locks Coleman had started half a dozen games this year and had played very well and when he has come of the bench has had huge impact he is only about 22 so still plenty of rugby ahead of his I think in 2 maybe 3 years he will be a mainstay in the wallabies setup.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yes they're very decent super rugby locks. Which means he isn't that yet. A number of very decent super rugby locks have not managed to be test standard locks. Let's talk about Coleman when he is a very decent super rugby lock.

 

[wamberal]

One difference with Skelton is that he has two established international players ahead of him. Having said that, I personally would want to see Skelton improve his lineout play a lot before picking him. Maybe I'm wrong, but I fail to see how we can go into matches against the ABs and the Bokke with two genuine lineout options, Simmons and Fardy. We will be killed.

 

[Pfitzy]

Palu is a lineout option too don't forget. Three is enough with Simmons to run it based on what we saw against the Frogs.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's all about balance. If Simmons, Fardy and Palu give us enough options and are good enough at what they do that we can have a functioning lineout then it gives us the opportunity to play someone like Skelton who offers something no one else can.

It's about finding the balance within the side to perform the required tasks to win the game. One of those tasks which we've often had the most trouble achieving against the All Blacks and Springboks is to win the physical battle and be able to get players across the advantage line with regularity.

 

[It is what it is]

That's why I'd pair Skelton and Higginbotham on the bench.
They complement each other when coming on as replacements. One's a good jumper and the other plays tight.

 

[emuarse]

We're starting to see some real potential out of our current crop of locks. However, I wonder if there is still a place for Adam Coleman on the end of year tour. From the small amount I've seen, he seems to have more potential upside then any of them. Looks big, tough and quite strong in the scrum. Although I say that having only seen him a couple of times. It is not a good sign that he was only on the bench against the brumbies when the Force season was on the line.

I also wonder if McKenzie will have any temptation to leave Horwill at home for the EOYT to have a full off/preseason. Not something we have every had the luxury of being able to do before, but if Carter & Skelton, backed up by Fardy & Jones, have a good RC, maybe it will be an option.

I still think the 2011 version of Horwill is a level above any of the current contenders (except possibly Coleman) but maybe he just needs a really good period of S&C if he is going to return to that level - although even in current form I would still have him in my 23 at the moment.

In reality, I doubt either will happen.

I'd be interested in the views of some of those who get to see Coleman more often though, as to where they would have him in the current pecking order.

Like Graham Henry rested his All Blacks before they got done by the French in the 2007 RWC?

 

[Gnostic]

SKelton might not dominate a lineout in the air but trying to drive a maul with him reeking havoc on it is almost as good for defensive purposes if not better. The Tahs defended how many drives from lineouts against the supposedly premier locks in Australia and they did it conceding a single penalty and turned the ball over twice. Yes the Tahs worked well as a unit to do it, but I haven't seen a maul defender like Skelton since Sharpe was at his peak. When Sharpe was out of favour and since his retirement any lineout drive close to the line was almost guaranteed points against Australia either from try or penalty and more than a couple of yellow cards. With Skelton's effectiveness at this facet I would suggest it could change how oppositions approach that aspect of the game. Certainly the Reds should've.

 

[TOCC]

SKelton might not dominate a lineout in the air but trying to drive a maul with him reeking havoc on it is almost as good for defensive purposes if not better.

Teams can avoid going for a rolling maul, they can't completely avoid going for line-outs. How many times did the Reds lose the ball from a rolling maul as opposed to the Tahs losing it from a line out.

 

[TOCC]

Anyway, looking at players in isolation is a bit pointless since one players strengths or weaknesses can be offset/mitigated by another players selections.

My comments earlier about a line-out specialists weren't made exclusively in reference to Simmons, i remember someone posting earlier this year that Mowen's line out skills weren't as important as they are made out to be and a player shouldn't be selected on their line out ability. Which i strongly disagree with, to me a locks line-out ability is almost proportionately as important as a props scrummaging ability..

 

[TOCC]

You could say the same thing for Skelton though.

Wykes and Steenkamp are 2 very decent super rugby locks Coleman had started half a dozen games this year and had played very well and when he has come of the bench has had huge impact he is only about 22 so still plenty of rugby ahead of his I think in 2 maybe 3 years he will be a mainstay in the wallabies setup.

I've liked the look of Coleman from what I've seen, he has good size and talent, and his technical ability seems pretty good as well, definitely a Wallaby of the future and potentially for this years EOYT as well.

 

[Gnostic]

Teams can avoid going for a rolling maul, they can't completely avoid going for line-outs. How many times did the Reds lose the ball from a rolling maul as opposed to the Tahs losing it from a line out.

Yes they can avoid it, but they have to attack somewhere. My point is that even with clean first phase possession the Reds couldn't crack the Tahs line. Skelton offers something different and even though the Reds targetted his perceived weakness they couldn't exploit what it gave them. It is about balance in the side.

As for the numbers, the Tahs lost 6 of their own throws, while the Reds lost 4 on their feed. (Fox Sports game feed). However that doesn't tell the whole story as much of the Tahs ball was very pressured.

As for losing the ball on their own feed they tried 5 rolling mauls from 5 metres and lost the ball outright twice at the maul and were ineffectual on the other three with one penalty.

 

[wamberal]

Skelton offers something very different. The first second rower in history who cannot win his share of lineouts. That's okay against second rate opposition, but it is not okay against top quality sides.

 

[Pete King]

Skelton offers something very different. The first second rower in history who cannot win his share of lineouts. That's okay against second rate opposition, but it is not okay against top quality sides.

Id prefer to reserve judgement on whether he is a liability un till Ive seen him against a team we havent beaten in a series in over 10 years (quality sides), based on what Ive seen he is worth a shot. If in fact we had the wood over the all blacks like they do over us Id be happy not to push the envelope but we don't so lets try something different to beat them, yeah ?

 

[Train Without a Station]

The question is will he be as effective against the All Blacks and Springboks as he was against the French. If he's not, he's a bit of a liability. If he is, then he offers something we don't have.

We won't really know until it rolls around.

 

[Pete King]

agree, but worth a try.

 

[Gnostic]

The question is will he be as effective against the All Blacks and Springboks as he was against the French. If he's not, he's a bit of a liability. If he is, then he offers something we don't have.

We won't really know until it rolls around.

I think we will see a good indicator when/if the Tahs play the Crusaders.

 

[Train Without a Station]

agree, but worth a try.

Mate unless we go without him in game 1 and perform great, I'm thinking he will surely have to be tried at some better. Whether the results will keep him in the 23 will remain to be seen.

 

[TOCC]

Yes they can avoid it, but they have to attack somewhere. My point is that even with clean first phase possession the Reds couldn't crack the Tahs line. Skelton offers something different and even though the Reds targetted his perceived weakness they couldn't exploit what it gave them.

The difference is that a small weakness exposed at Super Rugby level is a glaring weakness at Test level, the Reds inability to create some attack off those line outs won't be reflected by the Springboks or All Blacks.

 

[Pfitzy]

Everything is important. But no player is absolutely 100% at everything.

Skelton probably would have a rough time against the All Blacks. But so do most of our forwards to a greater or lesser degree