Wallabies Watch

[Braveheart81]

On the strength of today's headlines, I would not be unhappy if none of J'OC, Beale, Cooper or Ioane made the Wallabies. It seems to me that they just don't have the maturity and strength of character to be representing us at the top level.

Aside from Ioane being mixed up in an incident, what did the rest of them do that was so wrong on the weekend?

The 'celebrities' of the Wallabies are always going to attract more interest from the press than any other players. If it isn't JOC (James O'Connor), Beale and Cooper, someone else will take their place.

Their behaviour has been questionable in the past, but from my understanding, sitting in a hot tub and posting a picture on instagram or twitter or whatever they did hardly warrants not selecting them.

 

[Scoey]

Cooper is a flyhalf and Ioane is a winger Brumby Runner and most would say that Beale is a fullback. JOC (James O'Connor) I would agree doesn't have a 'best position'.

I take your point about maturity, but leaving these four blokes out of the Wallabies because they took a silly looking photo of themselves with some mates is probably taking it a tad too far. Nothing wrong with the back line that you have suggested except for the massive lack of test experience. I do really like the feel of a back line of specialists.

I know it's always the same guys grabbing the headlines but really, before the weekend's incidents (which probably weren't that bad anyway) when was the last time they did something like this? Like I said, I take your point about maturity, but this maybe a bit of a storm in a teacup.

EDIT: Braveheart81 beat me to it!

 

[Dumbledore]

On the strength of today's headlines, I would not be unhappy if none of J'OC, Beale, Cooper or Ioane made the Wallabies. It seems to me that they just don't have the maturity and strength of character to be representing us at the top level.

Because, what, they use Instagram? I shudder to think what you would have thought of the antics the players got up to in the 70s, 80s, 90s... actually pretty much ever.

Cooper is getting back into form. JOC (James O'Connor) has been carrying the Rebels. Digby is playing the best he has for a good long while. Beale is injured. Collectively they couldn't have done much more to deserve selection outside of playing for the Brumbies.

 

[Braveheart81]

Whilst I don't know the guy from a grain of salt, if Jesse Mogg became THE Wallabies sensation tomorrow and suddenly had hundreds of thousands of dollars in endorsements, TV ads for Wild Krill Oil and a bunch of models chasing him everywhere wanting to sleep with him, it would be difficult for that not to go to his head.

As far as young players in the limelight (in any sport really), David Pocock is by far the exception, rather than the rule. Whilst it would be great if everyone was as thoughtful and well behaved as he is, that will never be the reality.

I really don't think the three amigos are that bad. Most people would end up doing some similar things to them if thrust into the same position.

 

[USARugger]

Whilst I don't know the guy from a grain of salt, if Jesse Mogg became THE Wallabies sensation tomorrow and suddenly had hundreds of thousands of dollars in endorsements, TV ads for Wild Krill Oil and a bunch of models chasing him everywhere wanting to sleep with him, it would be difficult for that not to go to his head.

As far as young players in the limelight (in any sport really), David Pocock is by far the exception, rather than the rule. Whilst it would be great if everyone was as thoughtful and well behaved as he is, that will never be the reality.

I really don't think the three amigos are that bad. Most people would end up doing some similar things to them if thrust into the same position.

I think it's largely backlash from the old guard of the rugby community. Professionalization is so young still that this is really the first-and-a-half generation of young players with large bank accounts - and I think much of the criticism comes from those in the prior generation of players and fans.

I agree though - they really don't do anything that bad. Some silly fights in a bar or club aren't threatening the sanctity of the Wallaby jersey; compared to what happens off the pitch with League players that is seriously nothing.

 

[No4918]

Being an American who was born in the 90's I had to Google that one

Hi, had always assumed you were an expat. Mind if i asked how a 20 something year old American got into this great game?

 

[Richo]

I think it's largely backlash from the old guard of the rugby community. Professionalization is so young still that this is really the first-and-a-half generation of young players with large bank accounts - and I think much of the criticism comes from those in the prior generation of players and fans.

Totally agree with this part of your post. I teach communications in an Aussie university. It's remarkable how normalized social media is for young people. Most have Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Many view the continual sharing of thoughts, life moments and images to be completely standard. One student said yesterday, "I just want people to know about my life." That's a pretty common sentiment. Society is shifting on all this stuff. No one should expect 20-somethings to behave like 50-somethings or even 30-somethings. We can expect professional athletes to avoid bar fights and to be the first to walk away from a confrontation. I think that's the standard we should hold every citizen too. But we should all get used to Instagram over-sharing. It ain't going away.

 

[USARugger]

Hi, had always assumed you were an expat. Mind if i asked how a 20 something year old American got into this great game?

Grew up in a town with a pretty strong and very old local club so I started playing when I was about 16, currently playing in college. Started watching the Reds/Wallabies in 2009-2010, found G&GR about a year ago.

Totally agree with this part of your post. I teach communications in an Aussie university. It's remarkable how normalized social media is for young people. Most have Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Many view the continual sharing of thoughts, life moments and images to be completely standard. One student said yesterday, "I just want people to know about my life." That's a pretty common sentiment. Society is shifting on all this stuff. No one should expect 20-somethings to behave like 50-somethings or even 30-somethings. We can expect professional athletes to avoid bar fights and to be the first to walk away from a confrontation. I think that's the standard we should hold every citizen too. But we should all get used to Instagram over-sharing. It ain't going away.

This too, the level of exposure these guys face (self-imposed or not) absolutely eclipses that of any other generation of players. So whatever mistakes they may make off the pitch are going to get amplified pretty majorly.

 

[KevinO]

Mogg - I havent picked up on his defensive lapses yet. He's at the back so there are obviously defensive lapses, or miss reads, in fron of him - still early.

Brumbies have not conceded in the 2nd half in there last 3 games? Don't think there is honestly to much to worry about in his defense than.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Brumbies have not conceded in the 2nd half in there last 3 games? Don't think there is honestly to much to worry about in his defense than.

Let's see how he goes against the Sharks, it was the fullback and centres from the kings that covered all the mistakes of the forwards and ended up keeping them scoreless.

 

[Braveheart81]

Brumbies have not conceded in the 2nd half in there last 3 games? Don't think there is honestly to much to worry about in his defense than.

Against the Tahs, Jesse Mogg could have been sitting on a deckchair at fullback or wandering around the ground signing autographs and the Tahs still wouldn't have scored.

At least in that game, you can't use the fact that the Brumbies aren't conceding second half points to suggest that Mogg's defence is fine. It really hasn't been tested.

 

[fatprop]

Mogg made the only tackle he needed to do in the game

 

[wobbly]

My form team from the Aus conference thus far:

1. Alexander
2. Moore
3. Palmer
4. Fardy
5. Pyle
6. Quirk
7. Gill
8. Mowen
9. White
10. To'omua
11. Speight
12. Tapuai
13. Inman
14. Rathbone
15. Mogg

With Kimlin the first picked on the bench.

This translates in my thinking to a possible Wallaby 23 for the Lions based on form and experience of:

1. Alexander
2. Moore
3. Palmer
4. Pyle
5. Horwill
6. Higginbotham
7. Smith
8. Mowen
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Lealifano
13. Tapuai
14. O'Connor
15. Mogg

16. Polota-Nau
17. Slipper
18. Kepu
19. McMeniman
20. Hooper
21. White
22. Cummins
23. Beale

Would find a place for a fit and in form Palu. Douglas would be my next selected lock. Other than that I can't justify any other Waratahs being selected.

 

[Richo]

Good post.

I wouldn't select Kepu. He's been poor. Just got dropped from the Tahs' 22.

 

[tigerland12]

I don't know why anyone wants to move Tapuai to 13. He's 100 times better as a 12

 

[wobbly]

Yes but hoping Kepu will get a kick in the pants as I really on't want to see Alexander or Slipper used as a starting Tight head against the Lions.

I was impressed by the Brumbies scrum yet again against the Tahs scrum, as they were against the Reds, so that Front row has to start for the Wallabies and can only go better with two big chunky locks behind them. Palmer is a trade off we can afford against the Lions (possibly less so against the ABs), but at least he stays in the tight, hits some rucks and isn't a Ma'afu- style penalty magnet.

I really hope George can stay for the Lions, otherwise I'd probably start Gill ahead of Hooper if he continues his form on the ball. Turnover ball is our biggest potential advantage against the Lions. Higgenbotham (despite seagulling), Mowen and a resurgent MMM give us more line out options and ball runners, the Brumbies front row and two strong locks give us scrum parity. The potential weak link in that forward lineup could be securing our own ball but I'm hoping those big mobile bodies will be a match for Faletau, Robshaw and O'Brien which is shaping as the likely Lions back row.

 

[Richo]

Prop and front row selection will be interesting. Certainly the Brumbies front row has been excellent. Benn Robinson has been the best Tahs forward so far. I thought he was the only one who could hold his head up after Saturday. He seems to be finding some real form, including around the park. With Alexander scrummaging so much better and even fringe candidates like Pek Cowan in form, Australia actually has some pretty good scrummaging stocks.

Thank God for that, cos we're gonna need 'em.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Yes but hoping Kepu will get a kick in the pants as I really on't want to see Alexander or Slipper used as a starting Tight head against the Lions.

I was impressed by the Brumbies scrum yet again against the Tahs scrum, as they were against the Reds, so that Front row has to start for the Wallabies and can only go better with two big chunky locks behind them. Palmer is a trade off we can afford against the Lions (possibly less so against the ABs), but at least he stays in the tight, hits some rucks and isn't a Ma'afu- style penalty magnet.

Some well illustrated points there... but I for one would much prefer to see Dan Palmer turn out in the Gold 3 jersey than Kepu. Kepu over the last few years (and I do conceed that he was shifted from 3 to 1 to 3 to 1 back to 3. However, his impact hasn't been huge.

I am a firm believer that this notion that Dan Palmer is a 'pot plant' is a myth. He stays tight and does the tight work. He makes his tackles, and most importantly is strong at the set piece.

He for my mind would be my no.3.

 

[wobbly]

I don't know why anyone wants to move Tapuai to 13. He's 100 times better as a 12

Because I can't select any other 13 at present! AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was my nominal OC, but his form has been atrocious. If Inman continues his form, continues to run holes, get the ball away, make dominant tackles like he's been doing I reckon he's worth a shot.

I've always been a fan of selecting key combinations and therefore the Genia's - Cooper- Tapuai 9-10-12 has massive appeal, but I also would love to get lealifano's presence in there. Benny Taps is fast and strong enough to play 13, but needs more work on positional defense, especially if he's going to be facing O'Driscoll and Conrad Smith.

If Taps doesn't get time at 13 in the S15, then I think it's between him and Lealifano for 12 and then Fainga'a, Inman, McCabe, Cummins, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and possibly Tomane for 13. Fainga'a and Inman being the only ones in that list who are really specialist 13's. And yes, I'm dismissing Horne (injury and 2011/12 form), Andrew Smith (solid S15 player), or any other currently playing wingers (Ioane, Morahan, Folau, Rathbone, etc.).

I think baring injury or drastic form slump, a Reds backline (Genia, Cooper, Tapuai, Fainga'a, Ioane with the speed and boots of Mogg and O'Connor at the back would be formidable, with White, Lealifano and Beale on the bench.

 

[tigerland12]

I've been saying it for over a year now, someone needs to play McCabe at 13.
His game-play suits a Mortlock-Esque type outside center.
Defensively, having Tapuai and McCabe defending Tuilagi/Roberts/O'Driscoll (whoever), makes me feel a lot better then having AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) there.

I do agree with you though, no one has really put their hand up. Inman is probably a bit to inexperienced, Deans wont select him. Fainga'a looked dominant last weekend, he could play himself into that jersey. But as per usuall, he needs to start offering more in attack.

Realistically for me, I see Deans picking one of Ashley-Cooper, Tapuai or Fainga'a.