Wallabies vs Italy - 25th Nov

[It is what it is]

Phipps is not the back-up solution to Genia.
I don't think he'll be on the selection radar 12 months from now.
His supporters should take the time to review his past few tests for passing speed, accuracy and selection....it's not good.

 

[DPK]

It was forward.
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It wasn't thrown forward. Relative motion.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Best on field by far was the ref.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

The referee didn't call it, so it wasn't. And I don't think it was, on the overhead shot it looked OK, maybe marginal at worst. It's just the main camera angle was behind the play and thus gave a misleading view.

And even if it was forward, does this somehow make it less impressive? If it was called by the ref then yes, but if not?
.

does it make it less impressive? yes as any sane person will tell you, a forward pass is not impressive way toscore. if somone was a 2 metres offiside when they ran and caught a chip kick to score would it be still impressive?

 

[Slim 293]

Phipp's passing technique is definitely poor, and as already pointed out he's put Beale (amongst other players) under unnecessary pressure.

It's quite strange for a halfback at this level to have such a slow, laboured technique....... He picks the ball up...... pauses..... does one giant swing......... and then the ball eventually leaves his hand, by which the stage the defence is about 1/2 metre out from our players.

Anyways, hopefully we won't have both Genia and White out at the same time again.

 

[Lindommer]

(Phipps's pass to Cummins).....was forward.

No it wasn't, the direction of Phipps's hands when he passed the pill was back. The fact the pass happened as they ran over the 22m line and the ball travelled forward made it LOOK like a forward pass, but as long as the passer's hands go back it's OK.

There's a very good video of this on a refs' website somewhere, marked lines on the ground show the ball to be travelling forward after a perfectly legitimate pass backwards; the passer's forward momentum causes this, as Phipps's did. In Australia we're so bombarded with mungo media terminology and culture ("double movement", "forward pass", etc.) we sometimes forget to look to our rugby facts.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Here is the Forward Pass video explanation:

For some reason I can't post a comment in LAS' match review.

The attached may help those who don't understand physics.

My favourite mungo crossover commentary cringe is the "Downward Pressure" quote at trytime.

 

[Dave Beat]

Deans / Game plan / Options is a far greater problem than Phipps.
Without having a plan it is vary easy to pass aimlessly without purpose, they dont even play what is in front of them - they kick through or over what is in front of them.
The problem is not Phipps

 

[I like to watch]

Yeah what a shit game plan.
What coach of any standing would have a game plan, where the forwards get dominated at contact/in the breakdown and are not superior at the set piece.
How the fuck he would allow the best 2 half backs to be unavailable due to injury,and to then let the starting 9 to also get injured just beggars belief.
It's no coincidence that the teams performance deteriorated when Sheehan was replaced IMO.

 

[barbarian]

It's no coincidence that the teams performance deteriorated when Sheehan was replaced IMO.

Wow. So we were getting dominated at the breakdown because of Phipps?

Now I've heard it all.

Our attack was never that good in the first 20, we just got a few penalties and scored a simple try. I don't know if you could put any of that down to Sheehan.
.

 

[Sully]

No it wasn't, the direction of Phipps's hands when he passed the pill was back. The fact the pass happened as they ran over the 22m line and the ball travelled forward made it LOOK like a forward pass, but as long as the passer's hands go back it's OK.

There's a very good video of this on a refs' website somewhere, marked lines on the ground show the ball to be travelling forward after a perfectly legitimate pass backwards; the passer's forward momentum causes this, as Phipps's did. In Australia we're so bombarded with mungo media terminology and culture ("double movement", "forward pass", etc.) we sometimes forget to look to our rugby facts.

I've seen the video and played the game for over 20 years. I know what a forward pass looks like.

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[Dave Beat]

Yeah what a shit game plan.
What coach of any standing would have a game plan, where the forwards get dominated at contact/in the breakdown and are not superior at the set piece.
How the fuck he would allow the best 2 half backs to be unavailable due to injury,and to then let the starting 9 to also get injured just beggars belief.
It's no coincidence that the teams performance deteriorated when Sheehan was replaced IMO.

I have painfully watched that game 3 times to re affirm my thoughts.

• Breakdown - comes down to technique, fundamentals, and SPEED & PASSION (!!!), Gone are the days when 8 men pile in, teams generally now try and commit as few as possible to the break down. If we are getting dominated change the focus / plan.
• Set Piece, Change the numbers in the lineout (game plan options), Scrum focus on every scrum and send the ball back cleanly through the correct channel. Set pieces only make up a small component of game time.
• General play, retention, passion commitment & FOCUS. The amount of times the ball was distributed via Phipps, caught cleanly by Beale / First Receiver and then went AWOL was terrible. What the fuck was Timani doing in the back line? and it continued to happen through the whole game - cracker of a plan that one.
• I so KB (Kurtley Beale) get left with no options (Options comes down to plan) a number of times, held up to create a maul, and ball lost. There was another occasion where KB (Kurtley Beale) almost got done for a sheppered again the way it appeared no plan or options.

And there is more;

1. without the backs having direction, angles, and a plan how the fuck do the forwards know what is happening so they can dominate the breakdown.
2. with first or second option being to kick the ball, how are we able to dominate the breakdown in attack.
3. Without there being able to have direction, run planned angles, dominate the breakdown, how do we create phases and opportunities.
4. Without phases and opportunies we score very limited tries - that is not a fault of Phipps, How many tries did we score against Wales when our first choice half was playing?
5. So our ganme plan is to Kick It, and then try and dominate a breakdown when our first chaser is ussually a back, and the opposition has options.
6. If our set piece is bad, keep the ball dont give, kick it away.

And yes a half should organise the pigs, but;
how many tries did we score in the 3 tests against Wales.
our world cup when Genia was playing we carried the same issues with attach, retention, and game plan.
So yeah I do think it is a TOXIC.

 

[I like to watch]

Wow. So we were getting dominated at the breakdown because of Phipps?

Now I've heard it all.

Our attack was never that good in the first 20, we just got a few penalties and scored a simple try. I don't know if you could put any of that down to Sheehan.
.

My post also stated that we were beaten at the set pieces, using your same logic you should have attributed me as blaming Phipps for scrum problems.
If you don't think that Phipps gave poorer service to KB (Kurtley Beale), or that he didn't organise the piggies at the breakdown as well as Sheehan, then I give up.

 

[Braveheart81]

I definitely think Phipps' passing was inferior to Sheehan and that area of our game worsened once Sheehan got injured.

I think there were many more problems in the second half that had nothing to do with Phipps. Our error rate increased, our forwards got outmuscled and we were poor at the set piece.

The second half was a poor performance by pretty much the entire team. The halfback didn't cause that. They just contributed to it.

 

[Bruce Ross]

How the fuck he would allow the best 2 half backs to be unavailable due to injury,and to then let the starting 9 to also get injured just beggars belief.

I never expected to be cast in the role of a Deans defender, but it's a bit rugged blaming him for the fact that three players are out injured.
.

 

[I like to watch]

Sorry Bruce, but obviously a poor attempt at sarcasm on my behalf.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Gone are the days when 8 men pile in, teams generally now try and commit as few as possible to the break down.

An interesting point, DB. It goes against the current orthodoxy but having the whole pack flooding the breakdown area would pose a real challenge for the opposition. Of course it would mean that you would have to do without the obligatory lurkers and seagulls; but it would create space for the backs to work in.

And having forwards doing forwards-type-things and backs doing backs-type-things might make our game worth watching again.
.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Wow. So we were getting dominated at the breakdown because of Phipps?

Now I've heard it all.

Our attack was never that good in the first 20, we just got a few penalties and scored a simple try. I don't know if you could put any of that down to Sheehan.
.

Being dominated in tackles because your getting put into shit positions due to shit pill doesn't help.


However our biggest problem in general though is that Phipps has no organisation skills and beale doesn't either, so when sheehan went off we lost a fair bit of shape
.
Genia was our biggest organiser, and biggest talker. So without him there is no one to steady the ship and lead us down the park. Instead we are stuck with a guy who can't pass and organise and a flyhalf who lacks the mindframe to take control.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Sorry Bruce, but obviously a poor attempt at sarcasm on my behalf.

I know the feeling, Iltw.
.

 

[en_force_er]

Phipps is not the back-up solution to Genia.
I don't think he'll be on the selection radar 12 months from now.
His supporters should take the time to review his past few tests for passing speed, accuracy and selection..it's not good.

I think you'd find his supporters (i.e. me) would agree he's been unnoteable as a test halfback throughout his stint and has probably had a bad test or two but this mythical theory he's been notably bad or a major part of us losing is ridiculous. His play in general has simply not been that bad and for those looks for specific proof remember he's come up with key passes for tries against Argentina in the GC, Italy, and England.

His 'poor' passing is still equal and/or better than Burgeo at a similar time in his test career. I'd remind you that everybody was crying for him to return.

He's not currently test starting standard for the 3rd best nation in the world that's for sure but I'd argue he's no worse than Youngs, who many of us rate highly.