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Wallabies vs Ireland - 3rd test - Saturday 23rd June 2018 - Sydney Football Stadium

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Lost

Ted Fahey (11)
So you give up looking? I'll give you the tip, the next 10 might be no better and one after worse, but eventually we will find a quality 10. It's not Foley, and every game he plays is another game we don't take a step closer to finding the long term answer.

Agreed. They seem to be doing as you indicate with the hooking role.

Not saying he isn’t doing his best but time after time the outcome is not what is required. If you look at McKenzie for the Kiwi’s he makes mistakes but the accounting is invariably in the positive at games end. Very rare that Foley has the same result. 2014 is a long time ago now.


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Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I was at the game last night - first game of professional rugby since the corresponding match last year. I enjoyed the game - tough, intense rugby. All the people watching around me seemed to enjoy the game as well. Unless NZ is involved, all Tier 1 test matches involve the same attritional type of rugby that we saw last night. It is what it is.

I actually thought that the referee did a very good job last night - no complaints from me at all.

At first glance, I thought that Folau would be in trouble for the kick off challenges. The last one was particularly bad and I thought it was going to be a red card on the basis that the Irish player landed on his head/neck/shoulders. The interpretation of late has been that the player receiving the kick needs to be protected and players challenging bear some responsibility for what occurs. Once upon a time nobody would ever jump off the ground to take a kick, because of the inherent danger involved in being tackled while doing so. The player jumping has now been protected, but what we are seeing is the natural consequence of two people running at full speed in the opposite direction, jumping high off the ground for the ball. It's an inherently dangerous situation, and there's very little margin for error. The situation in Aussie Rules is slightly different as in most cases in that game the players jumping for the ball are going in the same direction in the contest.

We clearly missed Hooper, when he had to go off.

To me, the main difference between the two teams is that Ireland do what they do very well, whereas the Wallabies can be good one minute and make a basic error in the next play.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I was at the game last night - first game of professional rugby since the corresponding match last year. I enjoyed the game - tough, intense rugby. All the people watching around me seemed to enjoy the game as well. Unless NZ is involved, all Tier 1 test matches involve the same attritional type of rugby that we saw last night. It is what it is.

I actually thought that the referee did a very good job last night - no complaints from me at all.

At first glance, I thought that Folau would be in trouble for the kick off challenges. The last one was particularly bad and I thought it was going to be a red card on the basis that the Irish player landed on his head/neck/shoulders. The interpretation of late has been that the player receiving the kick needs to be protected and players challenging bear some responsibility for what occurs. Once upon a time nobody would ever jump off the ground to take a kick, because of the inherent danger involved in being tackled while doing so. The player jumping has now been protected, but what we are seeing is the natural consequence of two people running at full speed in the opposite direction, jumping high off the ground for the ball. It's an inherently dangerous situation, and there's very little margin for error. The situation in Aussie Rules is slightly different as in most cases in that game the players jumping for the ball are going in the same direction in the contest.

We clearly missed Hooper, when he had to go off.

To me, the main difference between the two teams is that Ireland do what they do very well, whereas the Wallabies can be good one minute and make a basic error in the next play.
All Folau needed to do was be in a position to realistically challenge for the ball. When you are Folau, that's every time. He only got pinged because they thought he dragged the guy down. Otherwise, none of his challenges were a problem.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
In Australian Rules, players are not lifted, either. That might be something that should be reconsidered. Lifting in lineouts is occasionally dangerous (I was involved for a while with a young man who had been practising lineouts at training, and had been dropped; he ended up a quadriplegic), but lifting in general play seems to me to be something that we just do not need.


Ireland were clinical and professional, very well drilled.
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
First Folau challenge is here (at 11m 7s). Another one where the single man lift provides a rotation point, so when Folau clatters in in results in the player flipping onto his head. If it's outcome based Folau is gone.

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Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
First Folau challenge is here (at 11m 7s). Another one where the single man lift provides a rotation point, so when Folau clatters in in results in the player flipping onto his head. If it's outcome based Folau is gone.
It's not outcome based, but i'd say hes probably gone for the hand on the chest one.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
So my quickish review of the game which will also count towards the tour as a whole.

1) The Australian Coaching gets one tick for recognising, finally, they the defensive system they had for two long years was a steaming pile of shit. We could all see it at the Tahs but with their superior rugby intelligence they ran it at the Wallabies for the same effect. So a tick for their belated recognition of this, small and in pencil.
2) I have to say I am immensely disappointed that we have seen little discernible improvement in the kicking game of the Wallabies since Mick Byrne came into the system. It has been atrocious since Latham & Burke retired at 15 and we have not had a really good kicker at 10 since Flately the mythic "running game" has seemingly killed it. The kicking from hand in all three tests was atrocious in general with only occasional bright spots, and to lump it all on Foley is unfair and a mistake, Beale is no better today than he was all those years ago when he debuted for the Tahs, Folau still cannot reliably kick and did we see DHP in position to kick? It is not just the individual skills though, it is the selections and structures of the side that see Folau at 15, Foley nearly always the exit strategy etc.
3) Chieka is an absolute embarrassment. The novelty of passion is fine but in key moments and occasional, not every time the whistle blows or doesn't. The TV is showing it because it is there and so predictable, but still embarrassing.
4) There remains little in the way of ensemble play, no running lines of depth support apart from set plays, and the team relies on the big names to make the break and make something. There is no real rugby being played, it is very league like with one out runners time and time again even in the forward "hit ups" as opposed to the close support we saw from the Irish with their real phase play system.
5) Foley has copped a battering in this thread, but ask yourself a deeper question about the structures. To my eye the Wallabies backline are playing just like a Macqueen backline from 20 years ago. Constant at pace hit ups with a long kick and defensive line chase (no individual on the receiver chaser/s). Is it Foley or is it the systems? I really don't know but suspect the latter, because of what I see in the way of the backline structures around him.

The positives are in the forwards only, particularly in the front and second row. There the side has both starters and reserves of equal quality, excepting perhaps Hooker where they will I am sure develop as the depth is coming through, just injured ATM. In the backrow for me the Pooper is a liability, one or the other and change the tactics away from always looking for the Jackal ball and actually ruck a bit. Too often the tackler does not roll to give that half second for the Pooper to get onto the ball and the penalty is conceded for that reason. It is a mindset and no doubt a coached tactic. It will not work, the referee's are coached to do a checklist at every tackle it runs thus:- 1)tackle made 2)tackler (and assist) release and roll 3) ball carrier release 4) small window for Jackaler to get hands on ball cleanly for ONE try 5) ruck formed and if Jackler has not won the ball hands away (unless tackled player still hanging on). It is a very small window and limited. Real counter ruck pressure is needed and the Pooper does not provide that.

Finally the Refereeing performances across all the June tests I got to watch were sub-standard in terms of the interventions driven by the TMO. They were inconsistent, too often obscure or pedantic and took far far too long to come to a decision. Honestly technology is there to assist the on field referee, the TMO must be relegated to an assistant and have no decision making ability, there must also be a time limit of some sort and certain individuals have totally failed the game in this regard. The system must be refined greatly, it will not be done away with so we can forget petitions or suchlike, but we can push for its use to be severely moderated and the onfield ref be returned to being the sole judge of fact and law.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
^^^^
I thought the set piece move off the back of a scrum on the Irish line early in the game was shockers. Crash ball to 13 running in? why on earth would you do that when you have the whole pitch and a scintillating backline to unleash. They did it a few times to 0 effect.
 

Lost

Ted Fahey (11)
In Australian Rules, players are not lifted, either. That might be something that should be reconsidered. Lifting in lineouts is occasionally dangerous (I was involved for a while with a young man who had been practising lineouts at training, and had been dropped; he ended up a quadriplegic), but lifting in general play seems to me to be something that we just do not need.


Ireland were clinical and professional, very well drilled.


Not sure of the rules but is lifting in general play expressly authorised? If so only in line outs and kickoff reception? The lifter is seemingly contributing to the issue that O’Mahony faces but with no responsibilities

Perhaps outlawing this will make the contest less likely to result in adverse consequences for all concerned


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Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
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It's not outcome based, but i'd say hes probably gone for the hand on the chest one.
POM would not have fallen like that if he'd jumped up to contest with Folau without a lifter. The whole problem with a single man lifter is that there's no stability and if the guy in the air shifts at all then you as a lifter are not going to be able to stop him falling to the ground. Look at the beast struggling to save his lifted player when there's no one even contesting the kick. Throwing people in the air with a single lift is a recipe for disaster.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
If it's outcome based then you have to ditch aerial contests all together surely?

Outlaw lifting. If you have 2 players honestly jumping and contesting, then there are just 2 variables. Here we have 3. The 3rd is being conveniently ignored by many parties as a non-contributory factor, when it quite clearly is. The lifted player has an automatic pivot point created by the lifter - an inherently unstable position. If the opposing jumping player makes any contact, which they invariably will, it will produce a vector which is close to horizontal, and with a pivot point, it's simple physics. If they grab the player to do that (as is being suggested here), as it would be if there were just 2 jumpers, they takes their chances. This situation is set up to fail more often than it is likely to be safe.
Of course, World Rugby will most likely ban him for 6 weeks and outlaw egregious jumping. We could just have each team throwing players at each other with lifters and see who gets the penalty each time.
Make players compete under their own power. Take out the complicating factor.
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
While I've got the replay open - in real time, the 1st half took 51mins from kickoff to whistle and the second half took 51m30s.

That's a fair old chunk of dead time for each of the 40m halves (mostly TMO and injury time)

I had a look at the first half pen goals, of which there were seven and one miss - and the clock kept ticking. They all took between 90s and two minutes after the whistle went and the flag goes up, plus 30 seconds before the next kickoff is received.

So penalty goals took up over 16mins of game time in the first half. No wonder there was a bit of criticism
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
Deegan. If I keep posting, maybe the name will embed itself into some brains. Or is it just unthinkable that a Force player could be called into the Wallabies' squad?

Do we have a nation-wide system of talent spotters working for the ARU? Or do we rely on just Super coaches and the wallaby coaching team to keep their eye on all rugby players?
How is Deegan going in WSR?
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
View attachment 10054
POM would not have fallen like that if he'd jumped up to contest with Folau without a lifter. The whole problem with a single man lifter is that there's no stability and if the guy in the air shifts at all then you as a lifter are not going to be able to stop him falling to the ground. Look at the beast struggling to save his lifted player when there's no one even contesting the kick. Throwing people in the air with a single lift is a recipe for disaster.

^^^^So much this.

It is impossible for Folau to compete for the ball without touching the Irish guy. Any contact immediately puts the Irish guy in an unbalanced position and the lifter has zero means of control.

Folau won the ball in all instances fairly, and the Irish guy in every instance was in an inferior (and dangerous) position to compete for the ball.
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
^^^^
I thought the set piece move off the back of a scrum on the Irish line early in the game was shockers. Crash ball to 13 running in? why on earth would you do that when you have the whole pitch and a scintillating backline to unleash. They did it a few times to 0 effect.

They got the timing totally wrong - Kerevi was way offside and should have been penalised - Sexton was rightly blowing up at that one - and instead he got penalised coming offside to stop Kerevi
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Another one that I can't work out - when the half went for the try against the post, Coleman stopped it from happening by getting down on all fours - so was offside and was penalised for it. Why no penalty try?
 
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