Wallabies v. Springboks, 18th July 2015, Suncorp, Brisbane

[Pfitzy]

I saw Adam Coleman and Luke Jones play some great games, to the point where I believed they were ready to step up and compete with Skelton for the other locking spot beside Simmons.

I saw James Horwill get a double yellow card for being an oversized bitch. At that point, I saw he was ready to step aside.

But if Horwill is going to push his lower lip back in and play like that for Cheika, then I'm cool with him staying.

The funniest bit is you seem to be using this as an "I TOLD YERS! I TOLD YERS ALL!" when it was blatantly obvious that Horwill was unable to rise above the petty backroom shit of Richard Graham's little bukkake circle and lead his team to a better season. Instead he just looked like he'd want to be anywhere else.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Pfitzy your comments are exactly my point. You don't even have Foxtel so how much of his "Ill-tempered, rudderless" season are you basing objectively on what you saw?

I don't have Foxtel. And I have suffered through almost every painful minute - just like the Reds fans who do have it. Sometimes more than once in the name of analysis.

Perhaps Pfitzy, like me, has friends and pubs?

 

[Pfitzy]

I thought Skelton created opportunity on the next phase with his runs, but he didn't quite have enough impact.

BUT Skelton's work on our attacking rucks was inaccurate.

Its hard to judge the individual impact of people at scrum time, particularly when Meyer seemed so intent on getting his starting (dominant) scrum off the park so quickly, but you'd have to say at this point:

(Holmes + Horwill) > (Kepu + Skelton)

 

[Pfitzy]

I don't have Foxtel. And I have suffered through almost every painful minute - just like the Reds fans who do have it. Sometimes more than once in the name of analysis.

Perhaps Pfitzy, like me, has friends and pubs?

AND INTERNETS!!!

Wait, I didn't mean to say that out loud....

 

[Pfitzy]

Tell you what though, with the whole "no contract" thing I'm seriously considering Foxtel for RWC2015, against the violent protestations of Mrs TA.

Who will of course change her mind when she sees the amount of utter tripe she can consume on the drama and reality shows.

 

[Omar Comin']

For our best 15, Pocock must start. He is a world class player and one who would make just about any other national side. Not saying Hooper isn't good, but is not world class. Start Pocock and if it's thought to be necessary, Hooper on the bench

Hooper not world class? He's only been the Wallabies best player for the last 2 years and is one of our top 2 or 3 players in almost every match he plays in, including last night. Of course he's world class.

I think they should both start. They have complementary strengths and they both have so much impact on the game. If Horwill keeps playing like that then he starts and we still have 3 good lineout jumpers.

 

[Froggy]

First, wasn't it great to see the wallabies come home in the last 20 minutes, rather than post a lead and then try to hang on, haven't seen that in a long time. While there are plenty of negatives, a win is a win, and I'm delighted with it.
However, given we are preparing for the WC, what did we learn.
1) The basics may be there, but there is a hell of a long way to go for the Wallabies to master Cheika's style of play (it took the Tahs a season and a half)
2) Sio is now a test quality prop. When he last played at this level, I didn't think he was up to it, now he clearly is
3) Horwill is still an option as a test lock
4) We can, at least for a period of time, successfully play Hooper and Pocock at the same time
5) Phipps is, by far, our best option at 9
6) To'omua is our 12
7) Giteau is not the messiah
8) Folau is without peer under the high ball
9) Our kicking in general play is way below where it needs to be

We still don't know
1) What or best 2nd row is
2) Who to play at 8, 10 or on the wings

I think Cooper is worth another crack, but between Phipps and To'omua. I would also still start Hooper (yes I can hear the roars of Pocock indignation), start McCalman at 8 and bring Pocock on at about 50 minutes (replacing either 6 or 8, depending on the circumstances). I would bring Skelton off the bench, but I'm not sure who I'd start.

 

[Dave Beat]

Tell you what though, with the whole "no contract" thing I'm seriously considering Foxtel for RWC2015, against the violent protestations of Mrs TA.

Who will of course change her mind when she sees the amount of utter tripe she can consume on the drama and reality shows.

Yeah do it

 

[Train Without a Station]

I saw Adam Coleman and Luke Jones play some great games, to the point where I believed they were ready to step up and compete with Skelton for the other locking spot beside Simmons.

I saw James Horwill get a double yellow card for being an oversized bitch. At that point, I saw he was ready to step aside.

But if Horwill is going to push his lower lip back in and play like that for Cheika, then I'm cool with him staying.

The funniest bit is you seem to be using this as an "I TOLD YERS! I TOLD YERS ALL!" when it was blatantly obvious that Horwill was unable to rise above the petty backroom shit of Richard Graham's little bukkake circle and lead his team to a better season. Instead he just looked like he'd want to be anywhere else.

Exactly, and at that point you obviously disregarded every game after. He had quite good games against the Force and against the rebels. Even before his stupid card in the first rebels game he was actually playing with venom.

Horwill has been playing reasonably with specific weaknesses (no different to any other player). Everybody has been happy to say he's past it due to the fact he's not standing out and he is in a poor team, ignoring the fact that statistically for a lock, he's been right there with the rest of his competition and has been a stand out in the line out.

People have been pushing the line he's past it based on watching one game, and then jumping to conclusions about his attitude and performance without caring to actually assess it week to week.

I have, I've compiled the data and told you all that based on what you want from a lock, Horwill has been there with the top group of contenders.

But people were more interested in a few decent hits from Timani and a few decent runs from Coleman without considering Timani took 3 line outs all year and Coleman's team had a pretty average set piece and when he went head to head with Horwill he was taken to school.

Like almost every returning wallaby from a year round season, Horwill was slow to start. Like almost every quality seasoned wallaby, Horwill is peaking towards the right time of the season.

It's easier for Timani and Coleman to come out of the blocks hard when they had a break, then played NRC, then had a good break and full pre-season.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Froggy the worst thing about Cooper not cementing his spot is it's important we give Foley games, but don't want to be chopping and changing leading into the RWC either.

It would be foolish to play Foley against Argentina and after a strong performance against a team ranked close to 10th think that's our best team and then be exposed against the all blacks.

 

[Blue]

Just released:

"How to Snatch Defeat From the Jaws of Victory - A Lesson in Perfection" by Heyneke Meyer and the South African bench.

Chapter 1: The game stops at 50 minutes
Chapter 2: Keeping the ball - The fallacy of modern rugby
Chapter 3: Stick with your substitution plans, no matter what
Chapter 4: Clearance Kicks - A Guest Chapter by Bismarck
Chapter 5: Pass the detonator.

 

[Dave Beat]

First, wasn't it great to see the wallabies come home in the last 20 minutes, rather than post a lead and then try to hang on, haven't seen that in a long time. While there are plenty of negatives, a win is a win, and I'm delighted with it.
However, given we are preparing for the WC, what did we learn.
1) The basics may be there, but there is a hell of a long way to go for the Wallabies to master Cheika's style of play (it took the Tahs a season and a half)
2) Sio is now a test quality prop. When he last played at this level, I didn't think he was up to it, now he clearly is
3) Horwill is still an option as a test lock
4) We can, at least for a period of time, successfully play Hooper and Pocock at the same time
5) Phipps is, by far, our best option at 9
6) To'omua is our 12
7) Giteau is not the messiah
8) Folau is without peer under the high ball
9) Our kicking in general play is way below where it needs to be

We still don't know
1) What or best 2nd row is
2) Who to play at 8, 10 or on the wings

I think Cooper is worth another crack, but between Phipps and To'omua. I would also still start Hooper (yes I can hear the roars of Pocock indignation), start McCalman at 8 and bring Pocock on at about 50 minutes (replacing either 6 or 8, depending on the circumstances). I would bring Skelton off the bench, but I'm not sure who I'd start.

Those negatives are positives as room for improvement. I'd much rather be peaking in a couple of months from now.

What I took from it.
Found a very good number 8.
Skelton wouldn't be a first choice lock against the ABs, or Boks,
QC (Quade Cooper) will become better and better as combo's develop and players realize play hasn't stopped until the whistle.
To'omua is an awesome 12.

Again, as was said last year and proven last night the bench finishes games.

 

[the sabanator]

It is concerning that he can play like that for Cheika but not for Richard Graham, but hey that's a Reds problems, not a QLD-versus-everyone-else problem.

The only thing concerning about this it that it proves just how f-ing inept Richard Graham is

 

[Dave Beat]

Hooper not world class? He's only been the Wallabies best player for the last 2 years and is one of our top 2 or 3 players in almost every match he plays in, including last night. Of course he's world class.

I think they should both start. They have complementary strengths and they both have so much impact on the game. If Horwill keeps playing like that then he starts and we still have 3 good lineout jumpers.

Spot on.
Hooper was having telling plays the whole game, that hit on burger from the scrum just before his try was the type of inspirational game changers he does.
Same as that penalty Poey earnt when he announced his arrival.
QC (Quade Cooper) to stay at ten, game time will show his brilliance of 2011 but combinations and awareness is so important - the play is never dead and his support will learn this.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The biggest coaching issue I have is the defensive shuffling. Let Quade fucking defend at 10. He's capable. Let 12 defend at 12. Let the wingers stay on the wing.

 

[Dave Beat]

I will add though, whilst happy, not excited as its game one of the campaign and a heap of room for improvement.

 

[Dave Beat]

The biggest coaching issue I have is the defensive shuffling. Let Quade fucking defend at 10. He's capable. Let 12 defend at 12. Let the wingers stay on the wing.

Agree, however are the defensive patterns about attacking structure? It's an interesting topic this one.

 

[Slim 293]

I think last night really highlighted the Hooper/Pocock conundrum..............

We need both of them on field to take advantage of their different qualities, but can we do that for 80mins?

 

[Oldschool]

Agree, however are the defensive patterns about attacking structure? It's an interesting topic this one.

not when you've got your 12 defending at 2 in the lineout!!!

 

[Dave Beat]

I think last night really highlighted the Hooper/Pocock conundrum......

We need both of them on field to take advantage of their different qualities, but can we do that for 80mins?

Even more so when they both play high quality for the full 80.