Wallabies v Pumas - Saturday 17 September, nib Stadium Perth

[dru]

But what expectations exactly are you judging Simmons poor form on rugbynutter?

On the limited stats available, he's running 5 times per game for 2m per run and making 10/11 tackles in a game.

That's superior to what Coleman delivered across the Super Rugby season.

If he's hanging out wide and delivering that in attack then it's not very good but if he's playing a normal tight forward game and hitting rucks that's pretty much exactly what you want him doing.

NZ Herald stats there TWAS?

I'm not convinced that 10m and 11 tacles is enough. Note also one missed tackle and one turnover conceded, lets call that an error rate on his tackles of 20%.

Now a lot of that is without doubt the way they are set up. My biggest concern with Simmo at the moment is his body language. Honestly just looks like a nloke with his head drooped and tail between his legs. Hasnt won a lot of rugby for quite a while.

It's an i pression not an impirical Measurement, but I definitely feel right now someone like Coleman has more upside.

I'd give the bloke 3 months off and send him to a beach and prescibe beer.

 

[Pfitzy]

Chieka obviously doesn't like Simmons. That much is pretty crystal clear. He's dropped him 4 or 5 times? only to reinstate him when our line out inevitably falls to shit.

Uh, except against the Boks our lineout conceded less ball than each half against the ABs.

There's zero consistency in selections

Besides the 20ish blokes retained every week, you mean?

 

[Scrubber2050]

I don't have the stats but think Chek's winning record is starting to become pretty average or is it below the Deans and McKenzie era

What has happened since RWC ?

An sure most of the players are putting in their best effort on the day.

The players, the coaches, or the relationship between the two. Is there discontent within the group with some of Cheks selections? Is it a captaincy issue ? Are there teflon players being chosen each game who shouldn't be ? Players at this level are no different to kids in that THEY know who is the better player and who should be selected and in what position. It's all about the 1%ers.

The Pumas will bring it to us in the first 50 or so then hopefully run out of puff and our finishers will do what they are supposed to - finish them off.

Hopefully a convincing win against the Argies by 30 to 40. That will actually bring confidence to the group.
A narrow win means fuckall to me as it means nothing - no confidence moving forward, just more of the same mediocre stuff.
A loss should mean mass changes but Chek being Chek may opt for a different bench player

 

[RugbyReg]

I don't have the stats but think Chek's winning record is starting to become pretty average or is it below the Deans and McKenzie era

Cheika - 22 tests for 12 wins and 10 losses = 54.55% win
Link - 22 tests for 11 wins and 10 losses and 1 draw) = 50% win

Deans - 74 tests for 42 wins, 30 losses and 2 draws = 56.76% win
Deans after 22 tests - 13 wins and 9 losses = 59.09% wins

 

[John S]

Cheika - 22 tests for 12 wins and 10 losses = 54.55% win
Link - 22 tests for 11 wins and 10 losses and 1 draw) = 50% win

Deans - 74 tests for 42 wins, 30 losses and 2 draws = 56.76% win
Deans after 22 tests - 13 wins and 9 losses = 59.09% wins

So if the stats are roughly the same over the same period of time is it the coach or the cattle?

 

[Scrubber2050]

So if the stats are roughly the same over the same period of time is it the coach or the cattle?

Bit of both methinks but when you speak about Chek you have to add Mario L, Grey and Larkham into the equation

 

[Joe Blow]

Hopefully a convincing win against the Argies by 30 to 40. That will actually bring confidence to the group.
A narrow win means fuckall to me as it means nothing - no confidence moving forward, just more of the same mediocre stuff.

Pretty tough there Scrubber. Any win will do me on the weekend and looking for a 30-40 point margin seems a little over optimistic.
This is not the Pumas of old, or even of last year, and we are not the same Wallaby side that contested the RWC in 2015.

 

[Pfitzy]

Cheika - 22 tests for 12 wins and 10 losses = 54.55% win
Link - 22 tests for 11 wins and 10 losses and 1 draw) = 50% win
.
Deans after 22 tests - 13 wins and 9 losses = 59.09% wins

Lot of similarities there in terms of percentage. Lot of All Blacks games for each man, too. The Pommy Tests hurt Cheika - could easily be looking at 14 wins if he was better prepared.

 

[Pfitzy]

Pretty tough there Scrubber. Any win will do me on the weekend and looking for a 30-40 point margin seems a little over optimistic.
This is not the Pumas of old, or even of last year, and we are not the same Wallaby side that contested the RWC in 2015.

Fuck yeah - win with 4 tries would be a great achievement, no matter the margin.

Have to withstand the Pumas onslaught because their ball-in-hand play is the best I've ever seen from them. They're probably only behind the ABs for that.

 

[Braveheart81]

I like that one of the players often described as a Cheika favourite and that being the principal reason he never gets dropped is Michael Hooper.

The frequency with which he wins MOTM awards probably has more to do with him never getting dropped than being a favourite of the coach.

Since his debut Deans and McKenzie also selected him every time.

 

[RugbyReg]

Lot of similarities there in terms of percentage. Lot of All Blacks games for each man, too. The Pommy Tests hurt Cheika - could easily be looking at 14 wins if he was better prepared.

and the Fiji, USA and Uruguay games helped.

Here's the breakdown per opponent.

 

[KOB1987]

and the Fiji, USA and Uruguay games helped.

Here's the breakdown per opponent.

View attachment 8477

That's true but he hasn't had the opportunity to play Italy yet either. Then squaring off a couple of the easy RWC games against a couple v England it all balances itself out.

 

[Jagman]

and the Fiji, USA and Uruguay games helped.

Here's the breakdown per opponent.

View attachment 8477

That can't be right. Deans played NZ 15 times in his first 4 years and won 3 times and here it says he played them 6 times.

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[KOB1987]

That can't be right. Deans played NZ 15 times in his first 4 years and won 3 times and here it says he played them 6 times.

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it's just comparing the first 22 games for each

 

[RugbyReg]

That can't be right. Deans played NZ 15 times in his first 4 years and won 3 times and here it says he played them 6 times.

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that was just from his first 22 tests so it was apples and applies with Check and Link.

 

[Jagman]

Hang on wait I see. Its reducing the numbers but keeping the same relation. Deans played NZ 18 times over all and won 3 (drew 1) which is the same as 6:1.

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[KOB1987]

Bit of both methinks but when you speak about Chek you have to add Mario L, Grey and Larkham into the equation

Why is that unique to including the assistant coaches for the other guys too?

 

[KOB1987]

I think we worked out on another thread that the LT average v the All Blacks is around 30%. Surpassing that has to be the over-riding objective for any national coach, if he can achieve that then the results will follow not only in terms of the overall win percentage, but also all other KPIs as well.

 

[Jagman]

that was just from his first 22 tests so it was apples and applies with Check and Link.

Got it cheers

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[I like to watch]

and the Fiji, USA and Uruguay games helped.

Here's the breakdown per opponent.

View attachment 8477

Yeah, they did.
But Cheika has losses v France & Ireland that could be argued should be on Links record......
Let's just remember, Cheika was appointed with no time at all to put his stamp on the touring team,after Link quit giving zero notice.