Wallabies v Poms, EOYT 2010, Twickenham

[RugbyReg]

I am sure I remember a TPN style ankle cutter in the HK Bled.

 

[Scotty]

Wallabies are obviously going to get smashed in the scrum, but the key to even this up is to achieve dominance at the breakdown. We have to commit to the breakdown and get there fast. This is the way we will be the unwashed.

 

[disco]

I've just looked at our G&GR Wallaby forwards individual player stats for the 3Ns, and Moore's are so off the chart I'm questioning if they're right

Like I said in an earlier post watch Moore in HK he was everywhere & he looked after Richie at breakdown more often than not. Fainga'a is not even close to Moore as an international test hooker & I don't know where all the Moore sceptics have come from he's a class act & we need him now & until the Lions tour.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm with you there Disco. I think Moore is a very worthy starter in the 2 jersey for us. TPN may have edged in front of him, but Stephen is still handy.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm a TPN fan but Moore is certainly his only real competitor for the No.2 jersey.

 

[GC]

Food for thought: The three games our scrum has been hammered this year, Poms I, Bled IV, Wales, we have won.

We have lost every game we were beaten at the breakdown: Poms II, Bled I, II, III.

I'd rather have forwards that can dominate the breakdown and the scrum. Given the choice of one, I'd take the breakdown.

I good goal kicker would be nice too but we may have that now.

 

[Blue]

Like I said in an earlier post watch Moore in HK he was everywhere & he looked after Richie at breakdown more often than not. Fainga'a is not even close to Moore as an international test hooker & I don't know where all the Moore sceptics have come from he's a class act & we need him now & until the Lions tour.

Two to three years ago ppl were talking about Moore and Bismarck as the two best hookers in the world.

Moore needs to play to get to that level again. Until TPN comes off the bench and strings three or four tests with no pies thrown together, Moore must start (provided he regains form).

Everyone seems to forget that TPN can be like a McCain's ad at times. He's brilliant in every other aspect though. When he is back, Moore will lift his game. No doubt.

 

[qwerty51]

Of course you'd rather the breakdown, it happens 10x more in a game.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Wallabies are obviously going to get smashed in the scrum, but the key to even this up is to achieve dominance at the breakdown. We have to commit to the breakdown and get there fast. This is the way we will beat the unwashed.

Unfortunately, Scotty, if you are getting "smashed in the scrum" you are unikely to achieve "dominance at the breakdown". Getting there fast is important but you have to win the contest. These are the two areas where power, physicality and technique are paramount. As I saw it we were outplayed both in the scrum and at the breakdown against the Welsh.

One of the things I particularly noted was the way the ball was carried into the defensive line in that game. The Australians, as is their usual style, tended to be upright when meeting the tackler. By contrast the Welsh, both forwards and backs, generally were noticeably bent forward as they encountered the defenders. If they couldn't break through the line they would very quickly go to ground with a couple of support players immediately driving over them.

They made few breaks but were able to pierce our line and gain a couple of metres consistently.

I don't think it will surprise many people that I believe that we haven't been properly conditioned to really contest at scrum and breakdown, and that is what worries me about this weekend's game.

 

[JJJ]

Am I right in thinking that if England beat us and the Boks beat Wales we'll be back to 3 in the world rankings?

 

[Gnostic]

Unfortunately, Scotty, if you are getting "smashed in the scrum" you are unikely to achieve "dominance at the breakdown". Getting there fast is important but you have to win the contest. These are the two areas where power, physicality and technique are paramount. As I saw it we were outplayed both in the scrum and at the breakdown against the Welsh.

One of the things I particularly noted was the way the ball was carried into the defensive line in that game. The Australians, as is their usual style, tended to be upright when meeting the tackler. By contrast the Welsh, both forwards and backs, generally were noticeably bent forward as they encountered the defenders. If they couldn't break through the line they would very quickly go to ground with a couple of support players immediately driving over them.

They made few breaks but were able to pierce our line and gain a couple of metres consistently.

I don't think it will surprise many people that I believe that we haven't been properly conditioned to really contest at scrum and breakdown, and that is what worries me about this weekend's game.

I think you are correct here Bruce and again I think it comes back to the tactics and game plan being provided by Deans. The dynamic fast ball movement game that he has been pushing requires the conditioning and strength training he is coaching.

One thing I notice i the last two tests is that Robinson seems to be carrying a lot of weight. Anybody else notice this.

 

[DPK]

A challenge for you, Gnos. Try and find a problem with the Wallabies that you can't link to Robbie Deans.

 

[Groucho]

A challenge for you, Gnos. Try and find a problem with the Wallabies that you can't link to Robbie Deans.

Given a sufficient wordcount, any problem can be linked to Deans.

 

[Bruce Ross]

The dynamic fast ball movement game that he has been pushing requires the conditioning and strength training he is coaching.

I don't believe that it does, Gnostic. Deans's previous gig, the Crusaders, had a big focus on heavy strength training but I don't think they were lacking in terms of "dynamic fast ball movement". Also he is not coaching "the conditioning and strength training". Peter Harding has responsibility for that. The Wallabies would have had a very different S & C regime if Deans had brought Ashley Jones back with him.

 

[dobduff11]

England make one change for Saturday's Match Dylan Hartley comes in for Steve Thompson:

England: B Foden (Northampton); C Ashton (Northampton), M Tindall (Gloucester), S Hape (Bath), M Cueto (Sale); T Flood (Leicester), B Youngs (Leicester); A Sheridan (Sale), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), C Lawes (Northampton), T Palmer (Stade Francais), T Croft (Leicester), L Moody (Bath, capt), N Easter (Harlequins).

Replacements: S Thompson (Leeds), D Wilson (Bath), S Shaw (Wasps), H Fourie (Leeds), D Care (Harlequins), C Hodgson (Sale), D Armitage (London Irish).

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm amazed that Hartley was allowed to play after his incident on the weekend.

 

[dobduff11]

He probably would have had quite a length ban aswell because of hisprior record

Would have liked to have seen Delon at 13 but i dont think it will happen

 

[chief]

Am I right in thinking that if England beat us and the Boks beat Wales we'll be back to 3 in the world rankings?

Correct. It's very likely. Aus to get monstered at the scrum. Maybe the use of 1 or 2 yellow cards.

England to take it by 5, and the Cook Cup while their at it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Let me just say that I am happy with the game plan of fast, dynamic ball movement. It's exciting to watch and if executed right can be very successful too. None of that means we can neglect the tight stuff, however. There needs to be a concerted effort from all eight in the pack to at least nullify the advantage that England have in the scrum. If we can do that, we will go OK. The quality of our work at the breakdown and in the loose is more than a match for England and if the backs get any quality ball at all, we will score enough points.

It's going to require all the same levels of concentration as against the All Blacks and the Boks, because England present a similar physical challenge. I'd like to think we are more creative and dynamic with ball in hand than them, however.

 

[Hawko]

A challenge for you, Gnos. Try and find a problem with the Wallabies that you can't link to Robbie Deans.

Cheap shot. Deans is the head coach. He is in charge of making sure someone fixes all the problems. He can fix it or he can delegate. But its his job to make sure its fixed. With the scrum he has not done this. Gnostic and Redshappy would argue that this isn't the only problem he hasn't fixed, and I'm inclined to agree with them on some things. But no one can argue that the scrum has not been a disaster all international season, no matter who is selected. Performances range from diabolical to barely acceptable. Getting someone to fix this is the responsibility of the head coach.

As someone above points out, Deans has elected to let the scrum go because there aren't too many of them and he wants to concentrate on a different type of play. Works OK on dry hard grounds, but not on soft wet grounds as often found in the UK and Ireland. And if it rains, like it does most of the time, its doubly difficult. That is the problem that the head coach has to fix.