Wallabies v Lions Game 2 MCG 26 July

[Major Tom]

Don't reckon we need to change all that much.
Bobby V comes straight in, he will bend the line and rack up dominate tackles.
Lineout wasn't great and we had arguably our best lineout 2nd rowers there so I'm not sure if an off night by thrower or them. That was Faes' first game back with the wobs.
Skeleton coming in would up our power game but hurt our lineout. Could see him on the bench to support Nonngoor or Robertson s because he'd certainly help stabilise those boys in the scrum whilst both those props would provide more carry. Perhaps Skelton to start so we don't get caught having him play out the game. Or we could have LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) if we're worried about Skeleton is short of a gallop.
I'd have Gleeson on the bench instead of Tizzano. Purely for his carry. I'd have Hooper or Williams as 2nd row cover (my prefence is Hooper for his ability to get over the ball). 7AAA's, Pollard and Bell on the bench.
Donno, Tate and Daungunu on the bench.
I think our backline is fine just need to get more front foot ball.
All in all, we just didn't start well and if we fixed that up, I think we have the team to run over the top of them.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Planet rugby player rating:
More realistic summation than some Aussie pundits.

I think Lynagh was targeted both with the high kicks and in defence, probably didn't organise the team and pods very well, offered almost nothing in terms of unleashing the backline, almost certainly should have been taken off for an HIA, and kicked between OK and poorly.

Credit to Farrell and Russell for orchestrating a lot of that

Having said all that, we have no better option, he played as well as could be expected for a 22 year old debutant behind a beaten pack, I'd be picking and sticking with him now and he will get better every test he plays from now on

 

[Yoda]

I think Lynagh was targeted both with the high kicks and in defence, probably didn't organise the team and pods very well, offered almost nothing in terms of unleashing the backline, almost certainly should have been taken off for an HIA, and kicked between OK and poorly.

Credit to Farrell and Russell for orchestrating a lot of that

Having said all that, we have no better option, he played as well as could be expected for a 22 year old debutant behind a beaten pack, I'd be picking and sticking with him now and he will get better every test he plays from now on

"Having said all that, we have no better option"
We do .... Donno. He's far better than Lynagh.

 

[fatprop]

They targeted our dwarves and we had no go forward

Our starters, we can fix the latter, not the former

 

[LeCheese]

"Having said all that, we have no better option"
We do .... Donno. He's far better than Lynagh.

And if Donno had started, I'm sure plenty would be calling for Lynagh. The reality is that no flyhallf can ever look like a winner behind a beaten pack and with mostly ineffective players outside of him.

 

[Strewthcobber]

"Having said all that, we have no better option"
We do .... Donno. He's far better than Lynagh.

I think right now he's better in the last 20mins than Lynagh would be once the game opens up because he's quicker, but don't agree that he's a significantly better starter, especially if we get toweled up again

 

[Backintheolddays]

We’re talking about the improvement in the last 20 and referencing our halves as the solution. They played well but the underlying reason is we started winning collisions and got front foot ball. Our bench outperformed.
Aside from scrums our forwards were disappointing in first 40. As you all know the dominance here makes the pretty boys look good.
Still would like to see more structure around JAS getting the ball in space. He also needs to be a little more selfish a la Wright and look to make the break himself rather than offloading ( which he does well).
Several times in second half he had space and the muppets inside either kicked or cut. Low footy IQ, particularly Potter but hopefully it was an aberration.

 

[Major Tom]

1. Slipper / Robinson*
2. Faessler
3. Nongorr / Robinson / Tupou*
4. Frost
5. Skelton
6. Valetini
7. McReight
8. Wilson
9. Gordon
10. Lynagh
11. Potter
12. Ikitau
13. JAS
14. Jorgenson
15. Wright

16. Bell
17. Pollard
18. 7A's
19. Williams / Hooper
20. Gleeson
21. McDermott
22. Donaldson
23. Daungunu

- I have an * on the THP because they each have their positives and negatives. Tupou out of form but still arguably our best scrummager especially with Skelton behind him. Nongorr offers a lot more with carries but not sure he's as good scrummager, same with Robinson (skelton also helps there).
- 7A's is the best prop but I like him scrumming with Pollard and he could go to captain if we need to take Wilson off.
- Slipper the best scrummaging LHP but I'm worried he can struggle across the park and may be susceptible to an injury. Bell to come on if that happens early.

 

[Major Tom]

I think Lynagh was targeted both with the high kicks and in defence, probably didn't organise the team and pods very well, offered almost nothing in terms of unleashing the backline, almost certainly should have been taken off for an HIA, and kicked between OK and poorly.

Credit to Farrell and Russell for orchestrating a lot of that

Having said all that, we have no better option, he played as well as could be expected for a 22 year old debutant behind a beaten pack, I'd be picking and sticking with him now and he will get better every test he plays from now on

You a concussion specialist mate?
We have to be careful we're not just taking players off that have concussion history. It was a big hit, but he was on his feet straight away. The doctors would have watched the tape.

 

[The Red Baron]

I'd have to go back and re-watch, but I recall Robertson was pretty solid at tighthead when he came on. He's not going to start ahead of Ala'alatoa, but I'd be keeping him as the reserve tighthead for this match.

 

[PhilClinton]

Arguing about choosing Lynagh or Donaldson is like being asked if you'd rather be eaten to death by sharks or tigers.

Neither of them sounds overly appealing and both result in death.

The reality of Australian rugby right now is there is no flyhalf with the magic bullet to fix our team and turn us into a totally different winning side.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Which part dont you think is true? I said wholesale changes, barring those related to injurie's is a knee-jerk reaction that wont improve cohesion. Bringing Valetini and Skelton back into the starting XV is not the wholesale change i'm referring, that's under those injury related substitutions which i thought would be obvious, especially given it's a role they've both played reguarly in the past with this squad.

People here are talking about shuffling the centres and outside back, swapping the back-row, changing the front row, locks and starting halves... For a 3 test series against the Lions, that's not going to get you wins. Claiming that cohesion is better with bench players based on that match ignores so many variables, it's not funny.

But thinking the starting side in test 1 showed an acceptable level of cohesion is ignoring the evidence before our eyes.

We seem to be on the same page in relation to Valetini and Skelton. My argument is that cohesion/performance would improve by also beefing up the backrow and bringing in better performers in the halves and outside backs. Therefore, Gleeson at 8 for a more physical ball running threat, Hooper at 7 to provide lineout cohesion with Skelton at lock while retaining breakdown presence and pilfering capability, Tate and Donaldson in the halves to better set up attacking capability in the backline and better skills execution, and my sole outsider being Pietsch in place of Potter who it seems is out of his depth at this level.

I know there is no chance of all of these changes being implemented. However, given most would already be training in the suggested positions and are already in or around the test squad, even just a few of them would be more likely to improve both team cohesion and performance.

 

[Purce]

Ikitau at 13 is eerily reminiscent of Smith at blindside. He's indisputably the better 13 of the two, but is playing out of position because he's more versatile than Sua'ali'i, and because there just aren't any real contenders at 12. I'd love to see him moved back, but I just think Paisami will be too much of a liability and won't redress the issue of the choking of the backline. Ikitau/Sua'ali'i seems to me to be the least worst option, but I really don't like it.

Interesting. I thought Paisami was good v lions for the Reds. The role they have Ikitau playing Paisami can easily play for Aus so not losing anything there. Imo Ikitau > JAS at 13 and JAS is likely > Potter on the wing. Plus having Paisami gives them actual centre coverage rather than a part timer in Kellaway or Daugunu. Makes more sense to me however I'm not an international coach!

In saying this JAS is a very good link player so I can understand them wanting to keep him in the midfield. He just feels either underutilised or used incorrectly at the moment.

 

[Adam84]

But thinking the starting side in test 1 showed an acceptable level of cohesion is ignoring the evidence before our eyes.

We seem to be on the same page in relation to Valetini and Skelton. My argument is that cohesion/performance would improve by also beefing up the backrow and bringing in better performers in the halves and outside backs. Therefore, Gleeson at 8 for a more physical ball running threat, Hooper at 7 to provide lineout cohesion with Skelton at lock while retaining breakdown presence and pilfering capability, Tate and lacDonaldson in the halves to better set up attacking capability in the backline and better skills execution, and my sole outsider being Pietsch in place of Potter who it seems is out of his depth at this level.

I know there is no chance of all of these changes being implemented. However, given most would already be training in the suggested positions and are already in or around the test squad, even just a few of them would be more likely to improve both team cohesion and performance.

I'm all for Skelton and Valetini to start, but Hooper at 7 to provide lineout cohesion with Skelton? Those two have started in a team together 3 times, all in 2023, twice in the TRC and once in the 2023 RWC against Georgia. That's not really a good cohesion factor as commonly referred to in the Ben Darwin model. So maybe you and i have a different understanding of that.

The only changes that improve 'cohesion' here would be Valetini in the starting team. If you're sticking with Lynagh as 5/8, then potentially McDermott does as well because of the Super Rugby connectoin. But wholesale changes of backrow and halves, replacing the 7, 8 & 10 who have a good partnership and understanding with the halfback who you now want to start, is kind of the opposite of cohesion.

 

[Dctarget]

I've been a bad fan and I didn't watch the game properly, I skimmed it last night. What was wrong with our lineouts?

 

[Uh huh]

I've been a bad fan and I didn't watch the game properly, I skimmed it last night. What was wrong with our lineouts?

It seemed mostly to be at the delivery end rather than the receiving end. Faessler a bit rusty. Should be better in round 2.

 

[Sword of Justice]

I've been a bad fan and I didn't watch the game properly, I skimmed it last night. What was wrong with our lineouts?

Timing was completely off. One throw was wayward but they didn’t compete so we weren’t pinged. Given that pollard throws and Slipper/Ala'alatoa lifts at the Brums I’d be starting them all together.

 

[PhilClinton]

Timing was completely off. One throw was wayward but they didn’t compete so we weren’t pinged. Given that pollard throws and Slipper/Ala'alatoa lifts at the Brums I’d be starting them all together.

I heard BOK say that - but I didn't think they were playing that law variation in the test matches?

 

[Uh huh]

Interesting. I thought Paisami was good v lions for the Reds. The role they have Ikitau playing Paisami can easily play for Aus so not losing anything there. Imo Ikitau > JAS at 13 and JAS is likely > Potter on the wing. Plus having Paisami gives them actual centre coverage rather than a part timer in Kellaway or Daugunu. Makes more sense to me however I'm not an international coach!

In saying this JAS is a very good link player so I can understand them wanting to keep him in the midfield. He just feels either underutilised or used incorrectly at the moment.

I like Paisami, my biggest concern is that the Wallabies are already getting dominated physically, and I see him as vulnerable to bigger, stronger players. I just worry he'll be out-muscled.

Honestly I'm starting to think we'd be better off just swapping Ikitau and Sua'ali'i around. Tell Sua'ali'i he's not a distributer, and just to focus on making breaks and looking for offloads. Let Ikitau play the educated 13 game he does at the Brumbies and rely on Wright as the second playmaker.

 

[TSR]

I've been a bad fan and I didn't watch the game properly, I skimmed it last night. What was wrong with our lineouts?

Agree it seemed mostly on the throw, but honestly I think you have to give a lot of credit to the Lions. 1-2 they just got up in front. The most costly one was just after half time when Curry read a deliberate throw over the back and pulled it in at full stretch. If it goes a half metre further Jorgenson was running through to catch it and had a bit of space in front of him. But Curry was onto it and instead ran straight through the hole that Jorgenson left.