Wallabies v Italy Take 2 - changes a bloody plenty

[Cutter]

Front row is a worry but both Mumm and Horwill are strong scrummaging locks. Smith will handle no. 8 ok. He is the only non specialist 8 who can handle it.

Smith will have his head up before the ball is put in. :angryfire:

I'm with you fp, we have seen the problems before with an inexperienced front row, and semi-detached back row getting reamed backwards rapidly.
I disagree with Cutter that Smith has shown himself to be a good 8. When? Just because he is a good 7 and generally talented does not imbue him with #8 skills that translate. With the rest of the pack being gazelles apparently, I would prefer a more solid option at 8.
And yeah, Gagger, the old "Rocky can't do it" chestnut loses some weight wiht the assumption that Smith can.
Of course, Deans probably knows better than any of us, and I will have egg on my face like many others. I hope so. I'll be very happy to be proved wrong.

Cyclo I didnt say Smith was going to suddenly turn into a ball running, crash tackling demon, I said he can handle the technical requirements at 8. Read my other post regarding why Smith can and Rocky cant. There is a reason why Rocky only played 8 when Leinster's first choice wasnt there. Ideally you want to put your most dominant backrower at 8 because they usually get more touches than the other back rowers (through picking from the back, taking kickoffs and covering kicks). Elsom was clearly the dominant backrower at Leinster but he clearly wasnt the best no.8.

I'm with Noddy. We will go ok. If Cowan and Alexander step up in the scrums, and providing TPN doesnt have a disaster with his throwing, our set piece will be fine too. Deans is giving these guys enough rope to hang themselves but also the opportunity to assert themselves.

 

[Pfitzy]

hmmm, I hadn't considered that. Perhaps we should be picking Tim Fairbrother in the Aussie 7s as soon as possible to 'commit' him to Oz?

CRASHBALL! :lmao:

 

[disco]

On a dry track & with plenty of players looking to prove thier worth they'll step up, Cross, Hynes & Cooper will all be looking for big games in the backs.

I'm a bit cagey about the front row but we have Moore & Robinson on the bench with Sharpe to cover any problems we may have with Kimlin.

Aussies should still do this easy & I would love to see our front row not only hold up in the scrum but to run riot with ball in hand.

 

[Pfitzy]

Aussies should still do this easy & I would love to see our front row not only hold up in the scrum but to run riot with ball in hand.

Two out of three ain't bad. Pek, Ben - make me eat my words

 

[Gagger]

I've been persuaded with the spreading the experience argument, but please, can we stop the

"we don't need to be good in the tight, we'll just run them ragged" crap.

Have we learned nothing from the Jones era and a certain RWC QF in 2007?

 

[Cutter]

I've been persuaded with the spreading the experience argument, but please, can we stop the

"we don't need to be good in the tight, we'll just run them ragged" crap.

Have we learned nothing from the Jones era and a certain RWC QF in 2007?

Amen to that Gagger. I am hopeful that Pato Noriega wouldnt throw Alexander and Cowan to the lions unless he thought they could handle it. Unless, of course, that is a culling mechanism in Argentina. I'd be surprised if any of Jim Williams, Noriega or Deans encouraged Alexander and Cowan to focus too much on their running games.

I feel confident in our lineout as, even if TPN is struggling, Moore can come to the rescue. Its a good chance for TPN to build confidence in a test match but without too much pressure on him. Horwill and Mumm both play quite tight at lock so that reassures me that the whole forward pack wont be lining up outside Barnes and inside Quade.

 

[Spook]

As far as I care I could cope with the selections if Baxter was on the bench.

Same here.

 

[Scotty]

Gagger,

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting that we don't have to be good in the tight, and you can sure Deans et al aren't either. In fact if our scrum hold up ok on saturday, then it could be a master stroke - afterall we don't want to find out how good these guys are in the middle of a 3N campaign, if players like Moore and Baxter are injured (scary thought isn't it?).

I think we can assume that Deans will want to compete in the tight, still play for field position, and build pressure on the Italians. What I think he wants to add to this game is faster and more clinical clearing out at ruck time and this is a part of the game that the 'new' players are just as good as the ones they've replaced. In fact due to the speed of the forwards in this team they may be even better at getting to the rucks early and (hopefully) clearing out effectively.

We should not forget that the reason we lost the RWC QF was due to our performance at the rucks - not due to an excessively weak scrum. This is an area where NZ almost always have it over us.

 

[Scarfman]

Nahh, I'm sticking with "wow" and "oh shit." Not everything Deans does is sensible.

The Iti scrum will hammer us. Lucky for us, their lineout sucks, so we'll be competitive.

I hate this team. Absolutely hate it, and I hope we lose. There, I've said it.

 

[Scotty]

who's mr cranky pants....? :

 

[Biffo]

Nahh, I'm sticking with "wow" and "oh shit." Not everything Deans does is sensible.

The Iti scrum will hammer us. Lucky for us, their lineout sucks, so we'll be competitive.

I hate this team. Absolutely hate it, and I hope we lose. There, I've said it.

I disagree 100 per cent. Let's revisit after the game.

 

[cyclopath]

Nahh, I'm sticking with "wow" and "oh shit." Not everything Deans does is sensible.

The Iti scrum will hammer us. Lucky for us, their lineout sucks, so we'll be competitive.

I hate this team. Absolutely hate it, and I hope we lose. There, I've said it.

I disagree 100 per cent. Let's revisit after the game.

What, you mean one of you gets to say "Nyah, nyah, nyah-nyah, nyah!!"?? ;D With some eloquent analysis, of course!

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

O'Connor in slight doubt with tummy bug, Mitchell brought in as cover but Rabbit will still probably play.

 

[Biffo]

Nahh, I'm sticking with "wow" and "oh shit." Not everything Deans does is sensible.

The Iti scrum will hammer us. Lucky for us, their lineout sucks, so we'll be competitive.

I hate this team. Absolutely hate it, and I hope we lose. There, I've said it.

I disagree 100 per cent. Let's revisit after the game.

What, you mean one of you gets to say "Nyah, nyah, nyah-nyah, nyah!!"?? ;D With some eloquent analysis, of course!

OK, I won't wait. Nana nana nah nah.

 

[RugbyReg]

JOC (James O'Connor) will be kicker right? If he's out Barnes? Turner? Cooper?

 

[fatprop]

JOC (James O'Connor) will be kicker right? If he's out Barnes? Turner? Cooper?

Until Gits comes on.

If JOC (James O'Connor) goes off, bring on Gits and send Cooper to 15.

 

[RugbyReg]

taly: Luke McLean, Giulio Rubini, Gonzalo Canale, Gonzalo Garcia, Alberto Sgarbi, Craig Gower, Tito Tebaldi, Sergio Parisse (capt), Simone Favaro, Jean Francois Montauriol, Marco Bortolami, Tommaso Reato, Fabio Staibano, Franco Sbaraglini, Matias Aguero. Reserves: Leonardo Ghiraldini, Salvatore Perugini, Quintin Geldenhuys, Alessandro Zanni, Giulio Toniolatti, Kris Burton, Roberto Quartaroli.

PFFFT, plenty of changes for the ITalians too. Two in the front row.

"only five players who started in the 31-8 loss to the Wallabies in Canberra last Saturday night who have been retained for the Etihad Stadium clash."

 

[formeropenside]

If I were Mallett - which I am not, obviously - my game plan would be really simple:

1. kick for position and then put pressure on the Australian lineout, or at least on TPN throwing. Put doubt in his mind, put a jumper up at 2 so that he has to clear him, contest contest contest.

2. use the scrum advantage. Hell, kicking an early penalty and packing scrums for 70 minutes will win you a test. make sure the Aussie backs get poor ball with defenders up in their face.

3. defend defend defend.

 

[fatprop]

Matías Agüero (born 13 February 1981 in San Nicolas) is an Argentina-Italian rugby union player who currently plays club rugby for Saracens F.C.. (played 1429 minutes in 08/09)

Fabio Staibano (born Eboli, 20 April 1983) is an Italian rugby union footballer. He plays as a prop. Staibano played at a youth level at Battipaglia Rugby, moving to Overmach Rugby Parma F.C., aged 18 years old, where he would stay from 2001/02 to 2007/08. Staibano represents the French team of Castres Olympique since 2008/09.

 

[Gagger]

We should not forget that the reason we lost the RWC QF was due to our performance at the rucks - not due to an excessively weak scrum. This is an area where NZ almost always have it over us.

In the QF we were actually playing well until our first scrum disintegrated and the mental demons came flooding back.

Agree that the ruck was an even bigger problem, but that didn't happen because we were late, it happened because we got out-muscled (still have the distressing :shakingmental picture of Simon Shaw just walking through rucks), and 3 short, light weight backrowers don't help in that regard

As it happens, just watching the 1984 grand slam documentary last night.
a) it is fucking excellent
b) Despite the amazing backline, they attribute their most impressive win - against the Welsh - to out scrummaging them, not running them around.